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athenian
May 31, 2006, 1:53 AM
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this seems like an obvious question, but i couldn't really find the answer online or in any of my books, so here goes...
i would like some pointers in setting hexes in parallel sided cracks, so they'll get some good camming action. i know people use them a lot in tapering cracks, or just as stoppers, which is all well and good, but i'd like some advice on using them in lieu of cams. is any kind of taper even necessary? maybe pictures of good placements if you have any? oh and i already own them, so no need for a flame war on whether they're worth buying, though that thread was hilarious. thanks!
a
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ratmnerd
May 31, 2006, 2:11 AM
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there's heaps of books that could be helpful, basically anything from the 80s or so (ie the "trad good sport bad" era), but basically just set them up so that the sides are flat against the faces of the crack, and the cord/wire is slightly off centre to the middle of the crack, so then when it is pulled on it ties to turn the hex in the placement, thus camming it in. sorry it's a bit vague, but i can't really put it into much more detail, not having the level of expertise i'd like.
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ratmnerd
May 31, 2006, 2:12 AM
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there's heaps of books that could be helpful, basically anything from the 80s or so (ie the "trad good sport bad" era), but basically just set them up so that the sides are flat against the faces of the crack, and the cord/wire is slightly off centre to the middle of the crack, so then when it is pulled on it ties to turn the hex in the placement, thus camming it in. sorry it's a bit vague, but i can't really put it into much more detail, not having the level of expertise i'd like.
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epoch
Moderator
May 31, 2006, 2:35 AM
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Fit them in, in the best orientation that fits the crack in question. In case you don't know what a proper hex is supposed to look like in parallel cracks, you want your orientation to look as close to this as possible. The camming action of the Hex will slot the device into a very secure orientation when pulled. Ensure that it is the CLOSEST fit to the crack as possible or you may risk the Hex camming too far, thus torquing it out of the crack. Also, always remember that there are 2 camming orientations to every Hex.
http://images1.snapfish.com/...23378%3B467658nu0mrj
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pendereki
May 31, 2006, 4:30 AM
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I provided a vote for the picture!! very helpful.
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veganboyjosh
May 31, 2006, 4:45 AM
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does one set these? in my experience, when it's such a placement, the hex doesn't wanna stay there. perhaps i'm not fitting them well enough...
but it seems that the hex needs to be loaded in order to stay in place there. perhaps this is where an opposing piece comes in?
of course, if i had a place for an opposing piece, i might not be trying to cam in the hex...
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pendereki
May 31, 2006, 4:59 AM
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Yup, one does set these. I set them quite hard when I am scared!! Sometimes they do not set well but still do not want to come out of the slot, tri-cams have this quality also. It as frustrating to have a piece jiggling around loose, yet you are unable to remove it easily! Opposing pieces can help to give one confidence in this case.
CM
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colotopian
May 31, 2006, 5:05 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Fit them in, in the best orientation that fits the crack in question. In case you don't know what a proper hex is supposed to look like in parallel cracks, you want your orientation to look as close to this as possible. The camming action of the Hex will slot the device into a very secure orientation when pulled. Ensure that it is the CLOSEST fit to the crack as possible or you may risk the Hex camming too far, thus torquing it out of the crack. Also, always remember that there are 2 camming orientations to every Hex. http://images1.snapfish.com/...23378%3B467658nu0mrji wish i could vote....but seems i never can (maybe someone else can) good pic dude, good on ya putting the effort in to help the OP
:D
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pendereki
May 31, 2006, 5:10 AM
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I like the good vibes on this thread--colotopian gets a trophy for contributing positively to the general atmosphere.
CM
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treez
May 31, 2006, 5:20 AM
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I can feel the love! This is totally the best hex thread ever!!!!!!!
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heiko
May 31, 2006, 6:55 AM
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trophy for both picture contributions :)
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dirtineye
May 31, 2006, 8:13 AM
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SOme people just do not understand hexes and tri-cams.
To keep a flat sided hex in a parallel crack, you really should use tensioned opposition.
Tricams usualy are NOTHIng like hexes, they have curves, and tend to stick in better usually. But in paralell sided cracks, again use tensioned opposition,
Slick rock or very hard rock can be rough on a tricam staying in place.
The best hexes in my opinion are the dyneema slung wild country rockcentrics, which cam much better than the flat sided ones like BD or weird metoleus hexes.
BUT, when faced with a parallel crack, you really do want cams.
I like to have the right gear for the placement, and CAMS are what rocks in a parallel crack or horizontal.
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petsfed
May 31, 2006, 8:58 AM
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I'm not certain if its true, but I heard about an early cams-free ascent in Indian Creek. Near the top of the pitch, the leader flipped the rope in just such a way that it created a domino effect, knocking free every single hex in the crack. Imagine being on the recieving end of that avalanche of aluminum.
Hexes need a slight taper to set well. Without it, you're in a very bad way. That's why the Creek didn't really catch on until friends did.
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heiko
May 31, 2006, 10:25 AM
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In reply to: Near the top of the pitch, the leader flipped the rope in just such a way that it created a domino effect, knocking free every single hex in the crack. Imagine being on the recieving end of that avalanche of aluminum.
Imagine being on the sharp end with no pro beneath you!!!
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dirtineye
May 31, 2006, 1:34 PM
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Thanks for the trophy, whoever you are.
As for hexes poping out, yes, they certainly can, and they WILL if you do not sling them correctly, and guess how I know that?? DOH!
That;'s right, I climbed onto a ledgge of about 6 - 8 feet once, started up the next section, put in a great hex, neglected to make it secure and multi directional, (see, the rope had to come diagonally acrosss the ledge, and ther ewa sgoing to be an outward pull on that hex if I put any weight on the rope at all, but more on that in a minute) via tensioned opposition, and I set out up this crack, not placing as much gear as I could have, and got up to a difficult section, where I put in a piece.
This being the last climb of the day, I was a bit ragged. (hint: when you see words like this, something bad is about to happen, pre-excuses are not a good sign)
I now had three pieces between me and the ground, but one was the hex, maybe 8 feet up, then another piece, then the one at my head, under a roof.
FOr some reason this little section right before the roofage had perplexed me, almost as much as women do. I spent some time figuring it out, and made my moves right up under the roof, and was able to get a stemming rest of sorts, so I could think this over.
It was a traverse out of a dihedral, with a crack along the meeting of the roof and left facing wall of the dihedral. the crack was in the roof, not the wall, so it was jam or undercling, not a rail. I had done this sort of thing before, but this one was too big for me to get any sort of jam, which is how people with big hands do it. I got up into the thing, thinking, I will have to undercling and sweep across this, leaning back agaisnt my hands, pushing into a lay back with my feet,and swing out on to the arette at the end of the dihedral out from under the roof. Not a big deal really.
Right at the corner of the start of this, where the roof starts, there was a fixed camleshot, a very old U stem camesnot, that had been there a LONG time. I clipped it. Now I had about 4 pieces between me and a bad ending, so far so good, no problem. Hehe.
Well things were going slowly ( the turtle is my climbing totem) and I was getting more than a little tired, cause I had spent a long time figuring this all out, and had enjoyed the little problem of getting up to the roof, it had some cool sneaky things to do, and I like that.
But now, as I set out along the laybacky underclingy traverse, I made a foot boo-boo, and came off.
When I came off, I looked down and watched as my beautiful hex popped out under the outward force, and then the next piece popped, and now I was on two pieces, my cam, and the old crappy one that had been in there since Hernando DeSoto placed it. (for those who don't know Alabama history, Hernando Desoto was a spaniard, explored Alabama way, way back there, when the indians were free soloing everything. I seriously doubt that he had any camelsnots, it is a little joke.)
HMMM. this is not good, I thought.
First act was get in two more pieces, LOL, and quickly.
I was feeling pretty stupid.
Gee, classic zipper effect. NEXT time I will make damned sure the second comes up and belays off that ledge, and I will absolutely make sure that the hex is oppositioned and bomber against outward pull just to be safe, is what I was thinking. (I'll shamefully blame the second a little here for refusing to come up when I wanted, but still, once he didn't come, I should have rethought the situation)
I really felt stupid for missing the potential for Zippering, I hate the zipper, (it should be called UNzipipping though) I knew better, I just didn't do anything about it.
ANyway, by now I was tired, and disgusted, and I gave it another shot, came off AGAIN (not my best day climbing) as I had gotten my foot and one hand onto the arette, (came off a HUGE hold, a jug, DOH!) and in total disgust, gave it over to the second, who went though the whole thing like it was nothing, damn his big fat hands and the fact that he is a better climber than me!
SO, yeah, hexes (and most things) will pop if you don't sling em right, you bet.
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jen_c
May 31, 2006, 2:37 PM
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In reply to: For some reason this little section right before the roofage had perplexed me, almost as much as women do.
Now...back to our regularly scheduled thread...
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toeknee
May 31, 2006, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: The best hexes in my opinion are the dyneema slung wild country rockcentrics, which cam much better than the flat sided ones like BD or weird metoleus hexes.
Yes, definitely, dirtineye speaks the truth. The Wild Country Rockcentrics cam best of all the hexes I've tried. They almost cam like a tricam does -- the curve helps them wedge in nicely.
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rockscaler2
May 31, 2006, 10:39 PM
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You can set them in any crack they fit in LOL! :D But no it doesn't have to be tapered. Try reading "Climbing Anchors" or "More Climbing Anchors". Two great books for beginners, intermediates and experienced. :roll:
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petsfed
Jun 1, 2006, 5:00 AM
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In reply to: You can set them in any crack they fit in LOL! :D But no it doesn't have to be tapered. Try reading "Climbing Anchors" or "More Climbing Anchors". Two great books for beginners, intermediates and experienced. :roll:
Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to compare my thorough readings of the books to my thorough experience setting hexes. Given a choice between placing a hex in a parallel sided crack and just running it out to a good placement, I'll run it out every time. Its not worth the extra pump since I'm more likely to fall after placing it. And if its not absolutely perfect, it will fail.
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athenian
Jun 1, 2006, 5:45 AM
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so has anyone had a hex pull out of a parallel sided crack during a fall? Or is the risk mostly limited to the zipper effect and the rope drag/shift causing them to topple out? i've read/heard about quite a few instances of cams pulling (usually because of underextension or a flared crack) and i'm curious if this is because A) cams are more popular, and thus we hear more often about poorly set cams or B) once a hex is set, it's much less likely to fail than a cam.
a
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papounet
Jun 1, 2006, 9:11 AM
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In reply to: For some reason this little section right before the roofage had perplexed me, almost as much as women do.
:lol: :lol:
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