I would love to run into the land owner. I would demand he call the police, I would demand a survey done. I would demand a lot of things to prove my case.

y is it ok to advertise directions to every other rock climbing site in the world, except this one? What is special about this site? Is it that it is elitist and only a few special people should be there? Why should we not tell everyone

i've brought a few people to hunter's

i'm sure you would. do you truly realize what you're asking for?

making "demands" is your perogative, just be prepared for the repercussions effected upon you by those you are making them to, as well as those from the community-at-large.

and, seriously, "demand a survey done?" who's going to pay for that resource?

MYTHBUSTERS!!!

No, matter how much you enjoy the seclusion of an area you are being selfish by wanting to keep it all to yourself. Climbing is about people and enjoying nature together. If you want to go out into the middle of nowhere and look at deer come to Southern Illinois we see them on campus and everyday while driving.

Like I said, I am truly a beastiality loving tree-hugger. I am not debating secluded sacred areas, and am not advocating the secret society for the society of secret climbing areas. I have to deal with the crap of secret crags in Mass already. Its an entirely different situation (bolt war) that keeps them secret.

All I was countering from the original post is:

USE COMMON SENSE, DON'T ABUSE A RESOURCE, EXERCISE PRUDENCE, Don't piss off the actual land owner, OR an adjacent land owner.

Sure spider its your god-given right to go piss him off, and spit at him from your side of the line at the rocks. But that is a piss-poor ignorant attitude. Try working with your neighbors, instead of tromping in there and smashing a culture you don't even understand to remove a dictator you don't like who sits on oil and may or may not have weapons of mass destruction. (a better reason is to crush a genocidal maniac :D )

I'm a republican, I have a home gym, I've written guidebooks, I've given directions, I've trespassed, I've even climbed with a crowd. I just feel the situation calls for a non-stereotypical American attitude, one of respect, instead of a Rambo-kungfu style, strip mining, clear-cutting balls to the wall arrogant show-down between man and beast.

just use some COMMON SENSE and maybe some RESPECT!

Oh, this conversation has turned me off of online discussions for good. I am going to play sudoku or something to waste time at work.

Have fun climbing. Destroy the area (or access) or don't.

My liberal, tree-hugging, cookie eating, elitist, anti-social, republican, unleashed dog-owning, alcoholic, irreverant, omnipotent, self-proclaimed god, beastiality indulging, V15 climbing, loud, obnoxious, american self is signing out.

If you know the secret handshake, I'll even PM you directions. I just won't post them.

The only people I've seen there are climbers and beer drinking teens.

Not saying that all climbers do this, but many of the pink lady slippers, puffballs and other rare plants I have seen have been stepped on or squashed by crashpads.

Draw that property line. Get into a dispute. When the dust settles, stay off of his boulders (the majority of the main area). Make sure you paint a white line one foot thick across the rock. I hope it runs through Petunia so you can only climb the start. Remember, once you draw that line, you'll be violating his rights if you put one of your finger tips on his slopers. Invite 1000 people to the public land. Announce directions in a full page ad of the Daily Collegian. Just make sure your droves of people stay off his land as you wish. It's the only fair thing as you said. The public can use their land, and he can say don't climb on my rocks (with a shotgun).

Yeh, I know.

We should just cut off access for anyone else who ever wanted to climb the main area. I'm sure the developers back in the 50's wanted it that way.

I was so silly to want to try to preserve access to the privately owned main area. F--- that! I like to get into land disputes and use my rights to frustrate the neighbors! Sweet! Now I can climb as much rock as I want in the sparse public land adjacent to the main area!

I think it was good as it was, people got directions in a discreet way (PM's or word of mouth). Nobody is getting the "adjacent" land-owner involved and ruffling his feathers. A survey will get him involved. Why go through all this, when you can just exercise prudence like people have done since the 1950's? 50 years of doing it the easy way sounds good to me. I got directions, you got directions, others will get them. If two stooges like myself and you can get there and not piss anyone off, it sounds like a good system.

did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent?

I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild!

did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent?

Yeh, I checked that out this morning, fun!

I'm done though, individuals will do what they want.

Yeh, I checked that out this morning, fun!

I'm done though, individuals will do what they want.

I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild!