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the_iceman
Jun 17, 2006, 8:55 AM
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Every time I go into REI, I end up with some smartass who doesn't really know as much as they think they know, trying to tell me my buisiness. Yesterday morning I went an purchased all the gear I needed to set up some simple top roping. I got a rope, an ATC, and 6 locking BD biners (already had some webbing).
The kid behind the counter asks "What are you guys doing with these?" (We're gonna build a kite dipshit, what do you think?) I smiled and said, "just setting up some top-rope." To which he replied, "Well that's a whole lot of biners for top roping." I gave him my best 'are you fucking kidding me?' look and quickly rattled off (while holding each one up and setting it asside) "One for each runner, double up the rope, one for belay, and an extra if you want to anchor your belayer."
he didn't really respond, but i wanted to say "mind your fucking business, and sell me the damned biners!" Of course I was cordial, but it's seriously made me reconsider taking my business back there. Every time I go in, I get the "you can't possibly know as much as I do, because I work at REI" attitude. With everything from climbing gear, to snowboards to sleeping bags. If i could could only give up that damned dividend!
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degaine
Jun 17, 2006, 10:30 AM
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Yeah, I hear you, how rough. Can you believe it, a store employee showing interest in you and trying to provide service to a client, how inconsiderate!
I'd much rather deal with REI's client service "attitude" than the alternative. When I've had to return something or had a question regarding a warranty, well, there's never been a problem, and I always get a smile even if I know my request may sound ridiculous.
I really don't understand what you expected the employee to do - perhaps you were looking for some acknowledgement that you know something about climbing?
Cheers.
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the_iceman
Jun 17, 2006, 10:57 AM
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As expected the message was misinterpreted so that you could attack me. I have NO problem with customer service. I love it! Especially since it's so hard to come by in UT. But don't ask me a question, and then automatically fire off a contradiction.
I don't need to be validated in my climbing knowledge, but I don't need to be contradicted either. It is perfectly reasonable to purchase 6 locking biners for a top-rope setup. Anything over 8 and I can see questioning it out of curiosity, or at least pretend to approach it from that angle "Whatcha doing with these?" "Top-roping" "You setting up multiple stations?" "no just one." "What kind of setup you using?" "I'm putting between 3-7 biners on every connection" "Wow, you really like to beef it up don't you?" "My climbing partner is a real fat-ass."
If anything I would think that in the name of promoting safety, you would encourage someone to have as much safety equipment as they can reasonably use, even if it was over-kill. But if not, at least don't discourage the purchase of a very moderate amount of it. Let me reiterate:I Love customer service, (even some light banter). HATE being second guessed on EVERY purchase I make. I have yet to buy anything in that store, without somebody trying to tell me they know better than I, what I need.
If I ask you, great. If I don't ask, at least give me some benefit of the doubt. Or pretend to be curiously interested.
Cheers.
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nangaparbat
Jun 17, 2006, 1:00 PM
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Perhaps the guy knew nothing of climbing and was trying to learn more. What better source to learn than customers. I use to work for REI back in the day, and I learned more from customers than about gear than I did from REI books, personal experience aside, Good job on being safe and setting up your top rope with safety in mind. We do need more safe people out there as the sport grows in popularity. As experienced and safe climbers we must take the young, new, and inexperienced climbers under our wings. It is our responsibility to the sport to keep it safe. As to your attitude that you presented in your post towards the "guy" just try to exhibit some patience with people, there are idiots out there and you will have to deal with them, don't be their puppet, let go and move on. You will not be so stressed out. If you got all hot over some guy who you felt questioned your knowledge, then you will have some stress related heart problems or just be unhappy and paranoid. Like the Beatles said, "Let it Be".
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lofstromc
Jun 17, 2006, 2:13 PM
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I was at the drive-thru the other day and even though I said I wanted regular fries, the talking box asked if I wanted to supersize them!!!!!!!
Arghhhg. It makes me so mad. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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the_iceman
Jun 17, 2006, 2:27 PM
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Good point, but again, if he's trying to learn he could ask. You won't learn much by telling them they're wrong. I wasn't really that bothered by it, I am very cynical in nature. A habit I am learning to keep reigned in. (Hence not verbalizing the 'kite' comment, even though it was in my head instantly) This instance is not what set me off about REI.
As i stated earlier it seems to be the rule rather than the exception, that's all I was trying to illustrate. After I posted I saw in the similar comments thing at the bottom of the page, people who seem to have the same problem. It seems that they're all too eager to tell the people who don't need to hear it, that they're wrong, but to those who have genuine questions not tell them anything.
Not that I don't agree with the policy of not giving any technical info. That's bad practice, whether you're a business or an individual.
I'm sure reading back on the post that I came off as a Hotshot, know-it-all. I like to think that I'm not, I'm open to constructive criticism, and I am generally open to recieving Beta, in most cases I welcome it. I, like everybody else am constantly learning new things.
Trad Leading for example. Never Trad lead, always followed buddies who had the gear, cause i'm a po-boy! ;) Wanna school me on it? I'll listen all day long.
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austinclmbr
Jun 17, 2006, 2:33 PM
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DUDE I HATE THAT!!
Like when I get done at the grac, stop in th 7-11 and get some beer, then hit up Wendy's for a burger and fries...they ask " would you like to make that a meal?"
A MEAL!?!?! I have a meal!! Burger, fries, and a beer!!! You think I forgot the tasty beverage!?!?! NO WAY!! If I wanted a coke, I would have ordered one!!! I want beer with my burger, but this is not France so I gotta get it next door, then I come in here and you act like I am not thinking ahead!!! I got my BEER!!!
jeez!
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justthemaid
Jun 17, 2006, 2:39 PM
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Sounds like you may be being a little hard on that employee. It seems like he may have been just making conversation, and climbing isn't his area of expertise.
Certainly no reason to stop shopping there.
Now- when they hover over your every move when you are the only one in the climbing gear section- that annoys me.
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the_iceman
Jun 17, 2006, 2:53 PM
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Nice analogy, but it's more like you going to wendy's and ordering a meal, Biggie size. They say "what are you doing with all that food?" "Eating it." *sideways glance* "That's a lot of food! You sure you're going to eat that much food?" To which you might reply. "I'll eat it, I didn't have lunch" But you might later comment... "I tried to order a meal at wendy's today and once again, they acted like ordering a Biggie meal was rediculous. I couldn't possibly know how hungry I am."
After about the 6th time, you'd probably re-evaluate your decision to continue to eat there, and maybe share your thoughts on the matter.
I didn't mention that a second associate, came by to take all of the gear it to the front desk and asked before taking it up there. "Are you going to need any runners, webbing, quickdraws with that today?" THIS is what i would consider good customer service. Ask the question in a simple yes/no, get the answer and go on with it.
Had she replied to my "no thanks, not today" with a sidways 'what the hell are you thinking' look "well, you're not going to be able to tie off without them." That probably would have bothered me a bit as well.
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ullr
Jun 17, 2006, 3:02 PM
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Somebody call the Whaaaaambulance.
:roll:
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bustaheel
Jun 17, 2006, 3:43 PM
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My experience is that clerks just hover. They don't talk to you or ask if you need anything, they just stand five feet away. Then, once you have figured everything out then they'll start bugging you.
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austinclmbr
Jun 17, 2006, 3:49 PM
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Ice man has a very valid point, but, I bet they see a lot of noob's
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slimper
Jun 17, 2006, 4:09 PM
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I agree, give the guy some slack if anything he was just trying to help. If you know what you need and want order from an on-line company. You can usually get better prices, and no hassle, if you don't want it. I see you live in SLC so check out Backcoutry.com they are based in your neighborhood, and the bonus is you can pick up your gear from their warehouse in SLC.
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angry
Jun 17, 2006, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: Somebody call the Whaaaaambulance. :roll:
Or at least we should order some French Cries
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the_iceman
Jun 17, 2006, 4:51 PM
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I don't doubt that he was trying to impart some of his knowledge about climbing gear, and were this an isolated incident, I wouldn't have thought about it twice...
...however, last time it was about the Feathered Friend sleeping bag i was looking at, the time before that, it was the K2 snowboard, etc. My rant was mostly about the fact that I can't go into REI without a rep telling me that what i want is all wrong. Or at least trying to second guess me. It's a patern, not an isolated incident.
I'm sure the guy ment well, maybe he was just trying to make conversation, maybe the store manager tells them to be that way, so customers will feel "taken care of" and feel that the staff must be really knowledgable. No hard feelings against the guy, it's the STORE!!!
I love REI, and I can't help myself shopping there, the 10% dividend I earn is more than enough to line my stockings at Christmas. I just for once would like to be able to go into the store, tell an associate what I want, and get a simple "Okay, will there be anything else?"
Thanks for the heads up, I'll check out the Backcountry.com The only downside to that is you still have to pay sales tax if it's in state. If I order online I try to order out of state to save on that... How ironic that intrastate sales are the only constiutional tax.
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ter_bee
Jun 17, 2006, 5:20 PM
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i think if i had an REI in town i would try not to complain. the only "rock" shops we have in cinci are manned by teenagers who went to the rock gym once for a birthday party and got a hard on. they're stoked, but they know nothing. one kid tried to tell me that rock shoes would never stretch so much that they would feel loose, only enough to "fit your feet." Another dude cut some webbing for me, as requested, set it on the counter and said pertly, "there's your rope!"
:o
clerks who know what they are doing can be annoying, sure. this dude in new paltz tried to sell me static rope when i asked for a short, personal 'gym rope.' didn't even ask if i was going to lead on it. still. i consider him much less dangerous than the local kids behind the counter at sun & ski.
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wjca
Jun 17, 2006, 5:36 PM
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In reply to: Every time I go into REI, I end up with some smartass who doesn't really know as much as they think they know, trying to tell me my buisiness. Yesterday morning I went an purchased all the gear I needed to set up some simple top roping. I got a rope, an ATC, and 6 locking BD biners (already had some webbing). The kid behind the counter asks "What are you guys doing with these?" (We're gonna build a kite s---, what do you think?) I smiled and said, "just setting up some top-rope." To which he replied, "Well that's a whole lot of biners for top roping." I gave him my best 'are you f---ing kidding me?' look and quickly rattled off (while holding each one up and setting it asside) "One for each runner, double up the rope, one for belay, and an extra if you want to anchor your belayer." he didn't really respond, but i wanted to say "mind your f---ing business, and sell me the damned biners!" Of course I was cordial, but it's seriously made me reconsider taking my business back there. Every time I go in, I get the " you can't possibly know as much as I do, because I work at REI" attitude. With everything from climbing gear, to snowboards to sleeping bags. If i could could only give up that damned dividend!
If all you are using to set up your top rope is webbing, the presumably you are wrapping trees, boulders, etc. To actually set up the top rope in that scenario, you really only need 3 biners (2 reversed and opposed at the point where the rope runs through and one for your atc). So the guy at REI was right, 6 locking biners is a shitload of biners for top roping. Get over yourself and travel a bit lighter.
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djnibs
Jun 17, 2006, 5:48 PM
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My personal favourite is when you have a question, there are no sales associates in sight, and when you don't have a question, you get asked 100 times if you need help... geez people.
The climbing shop back in my hometime, the associates there upfront told me they knew nothing about climbing, or the gear. It makes for a pleasant shopping experiance and that way they can't "up sell" you on anything. But then, I do miss when there is someone there suggesting that I buy an extra 1 or 2 locking biners, just in case my collection was getting small. lol
climb on
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the_iceman
Jun 18, 2006, 2:14 AM
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In reply to: My personal favourite is when you have a question, there are no sales associates in sight, and when you don't have a question, you get asked 100 times if you need help... geez people.
Yeah, try buying some webbing or something by the foot! You usually have to wander the whole building trying to find somebody who will cut it for you. I've thought about just cutting it myself a couple of times...
In reply to: If all you are using to set up your top rope is webbing, the presumably you are wrapping trees, boulders, etc.
Not if there are already bolts to anchor to.
In reply to: Get over yourself and travel a bit lighter.
Last time I checked, 50-100 extra feet of webbing weighs more than two or three extra biners.
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stefanohatari
Jun 18, 2006, 3:06 AM
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Yeah, you didn't need locking biners on the runners (or runners, for that matter, if your webbing is long enough), or two locking biners at the anchor. I work at a climbing gym that does a lot of retail, and am always eager to save my clients some money, and teach them something in the process, if they are interested in learning. Maybe they read that as attitude, though I try to be nice about it, and back off if they act like they already know everything.
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jakedatc
Jun 18, 2006, 3:46 AM
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yea, here's a secret from the inside of outdoor retail. not everyone knows everything about every item in the store.. or even every area. I work in a very kayak centered store that i have no clue about 85% of the things we sell. I either make a mistake finding something or ask people about gear all the time. I made trips back and forth from the phone 4 times because someone was looking for a cockpit cover and not a spray skirt.. i didn't know the difference.. oh god shoot me. I can tell you the benefits, general size ranges and cost of C4's but our(not rei) whole company sucks because i don't know the weight and skirt size for a Pungo 120?
A guy the other day came in looking for an 11mmx 60m rope.. i said the smallest we had was 10.5 i asked him what he'd be using it for.. he said TR and leading.. i'm asked "leading on an 11mm?" He said yes.. he was a bigger guy and felt more comfortable on a thicker rope. i said that's cool.. but the rope folks have been making thinner ropes stronger in the past few years and he was receptive to the idea and left with a sweet 10.5 that will serve him well. I could have been like "no, we don't have any" and left him rope-less and the store minus a sale or help him find something that will suit his needs in a friendly, no pressure way.
The asking people if they are "ok".. "finding everything they need" etc is mostly procedure.. as much as experienced people hate being bugged about shit.. people that don't know what they need or where to find it complain alot more vocally and the corporate folks hear about it. I do my best to balance it out so that if someone is all set they will tell me and if someone needs help then they ask.
Iceman.. Try working at REI or another retail store sometime (if they'd even hire you.. your customer service skills seem lacking) Then come back and see how you like working retail.
Balance making sales, follow company policy, and keeping your boss happy with being friendly, informative, invisible, right there the instant someone has a question or perhaps have ESP to answer befor they ask, knowing everything about all gear, not acting like you know about all gear. THEN do it all with a smile and kind greeting.
Have a good night :D
:boring:
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the_iceman
Jun 18, 2006, 5:15 AM
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In reply to: Iceman.. Try working at REI or another retail store sometime (if they'd even hire you.. your customer service skills seem lacking) Then come back and see how you like working retail. Balance making sales, follow company policy, and keeping your boss happy with being friendly, informative, invisible, right there the instant someone has a question or perhaps have ESP to answer befor they ask, knowing everything about all gear, not acting like you know about all gear. THEN do it all with a smile and kind greeting. Have a good night :D :boring:
You're right, I wouldn't know anything about customer service. It's not like I've ever been a manager dealing with customer service... Oh wait, yes I have. In a couple of past posts, I gave some examples of reasonable alternatives for trying to understand a customer's needs, rather than just automaticly contradicting.
Don't presume to tell me about customer service, just because you're an associate at an REI type store. Then again, if you work there, you must know everything. After all, omniscience, is the second thing they hand you right? It comes right after the nametag isnt it? Or maybe it's WITH the nametag, I'm not sure...
Furthermore, I don't see how my annoyance with pushy, contradictary, know-it-all, hotshot salespersons, at all reflects my customer service skills...
Although, as a pushy, hotshot, know-it-all salesperson, who doesn't understand 85% of what he's selling, I'm sure you know exactly where this guy is coming from.
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rockguide
Jun 18, 2006, 6:09 AM
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So ... the idea is that clerks talk to people that need help, and do not talk to those who don't?
They just give gear to those that know exactly what they want, and offer helpful suggestions to those that are making a mistake.
And they tell this how? And if they make a mistake it is insulting how?
I am often advised by people with less experience than I have. I first say thank you. Then I listen. A little human conversation is nice. Then I either decline the info, explain my ideas (maybe expand their knowledge), and move on. But sometimes, I learn something.
If some staff wastes a couple minutes of my time explaining the pros and cons of wire gates - well, I have had worse minutes.
(oh, and I have met some hardcore and knowledgeable climbers working climbing counters who looked, at first glance, to be a know nothing nOOb.)
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rgbscan
Jun 18, 2006, 6:14 AM
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In reply to: Every time I go into REI, I end up with some smartass who doesn't really know as much as they think they know, trying to tell me my buisiness. Yesterday morning I went an purchased all the gear I needed to set up some simple top roping. I got a rope, an ATC, and 6 locking BD biners (already had some webbing). The kid behind the counter asks "What are you guys doing with these?" (We're gonna build a kite s---, what do you think?) I smiled and said, "just setting up some top-rope." To which he replied, "Well that's a whole lot of biners for top roping." I gave him my best 'are you f---ing kidding me?' look and quickly rattled off (while holding each one up and setting it asside) "One for each runner, double up the rope, one for belay, and an extra if you want to anchor your belayer." he didn't really respond, but i wanted to say "mind your f---ing business, and sell me the damned biners!" Of course I was cordial, but it's seriously made me reconsider taking my business back there. Every time I go in, I get the " you can't possibly know as much as I do, because I work at REI" attitude. With everything from climbing gear, to snowboards to sleeping bags. If i could could only give up that damned dividend!
Then why do you keep shopping there? If you don't like it go somewhere else. The only vote that matters is the one you make with your dollars.
Instead of whining on the internet waiting for someone to tell you you're right, why not solve your perceived problem and go elswhere?
Chris
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ctardi
Jun 18, 2006, 6:14 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Iceman.. Try working at REI or another retail store sometime (if they'd even hire you.. your customer service skills seem lacking) Then come back and see how you like working retail. Balance making sales, follow company policy, and keeping your boss happy with being friendly, informative, invisible, right there the instant someone has a question or perhaps have ESP to answer befor they ask, knowing everything about all gear, not acting like you know about all gear. THEN do it all with a smile and kind greeting. Have a good night :D :boring: You're right, I wouldn't know anything about customer service. It's not like I've ever been a manager dealing with customer service... Oh wait, yes I have. In a couple of past posts, I gave some examples of reasonable alternatives for trying to understand a customer's needs, rather than just automaticly contradicting. Don't presume to tell me about customer service, just because you're an associate at an REI type store. Then again, if you work there, you must know everything. After all, omniscience, is the second thing they hand you right? It comes right after the nametag isnt it? Or maybe it's WITH the nametag, I'm not sure... Furthermore, I don't see how my annoyance with pushy, contradictary, know-it-all, hotshot salespersons, at all reflects my customer service skills... Although, as a pushy, hotshot, know-it-all salesperson, who doesn't understand 85% of what he's selling, I'm sure you know exactly where this guy is coming from.
So....because you work in customer service, you know everything about it, and all the different aspects and 'quirks' of doing it at every store?
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