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naturr
Jun 18, 2006, 4:54 AM
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Does anyone know the names of the companies that provide insurance to Toronto Rock climbing gyms like Rock Oasis, TCA and Jo's? Is there a way to find out how safe a gym is? Is there any regulation or group that keeps an eye on how many accidents a gym has? Thanks in advance!
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anykineclimb
Jun 18, 2006, 7:26 AM
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Gyms are pretty safe. In my time working in one and visiting others, I've never seen a serious injury. Maybe a ropeburn, minor scrapes but thats all. Are you just worried for your own safey as a n00b or is there some ulterior motive? :? If you're on the up and up, you can directly ask the gym.
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naturr
Jun 19, 2006, 4:16 AM
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There is a gym in my area that I have heard a number of rumours about mostly from other climbers but lately from one of the staff. Now I have mentioned it to one of the senior guys and he said it is very rare, forgetting to mention the girl that left in an ambulance a month before or the girl a week ago laid out in the locker room with people helping her, so I don't trust them to tell the truth. I wanted to see if there was someway of figuring out if this is something I should worry about or not with this gym. I was thinking for a public activity there is probably someway to find out how safe a place is much like the way you can check on the inspection record for a restaurant. So does anyone know of a way to find out or the insurance companies used in Ontario? My thinking is they would be able to give me some sense of how safe the gym is.
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kantkatchme
Jun 19, 2006, 5:27 AM
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im not really any help, cause i cant answer your question. but id think that if your safe, and you use your own belay device and maybe your own rope if you'r that worried you would be fine anywhere. or you could just go somewhere else, no?
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granite_grrl
Jun 19, 2006, 5:36 AM
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In reply to: or you could just go somewhere else, no? Or better yet skip the gym and head outside where you're the only one responsible for the condition of your gear and the safety of your setup.
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naturr
Jun 19, 2006, 2:28 PM
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My friends climb there and haven't heard what I have so I want to find out one way or the other for their safety as well as my own. Incidentally while on lead gym safety is even more important as it is even more dangerous and you are relying on their wall, clips, mounts and environtment to be safe. Don't mean to be ungratefull but lets keep this thread on topic after this. So does anyone know what company provides insurance to Ontario Gyms or of a group, Phone number or person that tracks gym safety?
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kantkatchme
Jun 19, 2006, 6:20 PM
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i went and found this. im not sure if its any help. but there seem to be quite a few gyms in ontario that are on the list. maybe you can find your gym. http://www.outdoorindustry.org/ peace
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neuroshock
Jun 19, 2006, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: My friends climb there and haven't heard what I have so I want to find out one way or the other for their safety as well as my own. Incidentally while on lead gym safety is even more important as it is even more dangerous and you are relying on their wall, clips, mounts and environtment to be safe. take it into your own hands and ask the gyms how they were built. welded steel frames? bolt hangars backed up somehow? just ask them to tell/show you how their setup is safe. on the other hand, as we inform people at the gym where i work as well as most liability waivers out there, this is a dangerous activity where you may be injured, or even killed. if you're looking for, safe maybe this isn't the activity for you. about the girl that left in an ambulance, it wasn't necessarily the gym's fault. it could have been a freak accident. i've been at an indoor bouldering comp where a girl, not far off of the ground, fell in an awkward manner and stiff-armed her fall onto the padding below. ended up breaking her elbow and an ambulance was called.
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neuroshock
Jun 19, 2006, 6:55 PM
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oh, and to your other post....
In reply to: I wanted to see if there was someway of figuring out if this is something I should worry about or not with this gym. probably not.
In reply to: I was thinking for a public activity there is probably someway to find out how safe a place is much like the way you can check on the inspection record for a restaurant. don't believe so. never heard of such a thing before.
In reply to: So does anyone know of a way to find out or the insurance companies used in Ontario? My thinking is they would be able to give me some sense of how safe the gym is. from my experiences with the insurance industry in regard to climbing gyms, i wouldn't count on it. have you ever seen one of the applications? much of it seems nonsensical.
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summerprophet
Jun 19, 2006, 7:52 PM
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Hi there; I wish I had more information for you, but I will share the little I have. I have managed gyms in Canada long ago and have the inside scoop on operations. First and foremost Canadian Gyms have far greater overhead and red tape than similar gyms in the states. Insurance in 10 to 15 times that of a comparable gym south of the border. Operators can use a variety of companies that offer commercial insurance, but as it is a business with implied risk, the premiums are through the roof. Most of Gym profits in Canada go into insurance. Does this make them safer than ones in the states? I doubt it, safety is the result of trained staff rather than insurance rates. In the late 1990's a foundation was formed in Canada called the North American Gym Climbers Assosiation. They had plans to band alll operations together and offer staff training and competitive insurance. At the time it sounded like most gyms were going to follow their lead and join up. I am not sure if it panned out or if they are still around, as I left the Gym shortly after they started. The basic "insurance" against lawsuit is the waiver that you sign to use the premisise, If you inspect all the fine print, you have signed a legal document giving up all rights, in order to use the facilities. (These are binding, however if the gym does not perform to the industry standard, the waiver can be exempted). hope this helps.
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tradrenn
Jun 19, 2006, 9:25 PM
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In reply to: If you inspect all the fine print, you have signed a legal document giving up all rights, in order to use the facilities. It is not possible according to Canadian Constitution to sign your rights away, my lawyer told me that about 4 years ago. The "waver" you are signing only reduces a pay out. Let me share this story with you: About 2 years ago a girl was bouldering at one of Toronto gyms and as she fell from that problem and broke her ankle. Is that gym unsafe ?
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