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Progressing from 5.10 to 5.11
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slimper


Jun 21, 2006, 2:24 PM
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Re: Progressing from 5.10 to 5.11 [In reply to]
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There is some good advice in this post. The only other thing I'll add is when sport climbers are pushing their grade. They tend to climb from bolt to bolt. This chops climbs into smaller sections. Instead of climbing from one bolt to the next try to look at the climb as a whole and simply clip the bolts when you arrive at them.


zeke_sf


Jun 21, 2006, 4:51 PM
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There is some good advice in this post. The only other thing I'll add is when sport climbers are pushing their grade. They tend to climb from bolt to bolt. This chops climbs into smaller sections. Instead of climbing from one bolt to the next try to look at the climb as a whole and simply clip the bolts when you arrive at them.

Good point. I'm just getting out of that scared to fall phase, and I can tell my increasing tolerance of falling is helping my climbing. I always feel better after that first fall. However, the "bolt to bolt" way of climbing is still pretty valid those first 2 bolts IMO. Don't neglect the real dangers, but realize that most sport climbs (especially harder, more overhung ones) have pretty safe falls. It's easier to know this mentally than it is emotionally.


slablizard


Jun 21, 2006, 5:39 PM
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The single thing that helps me progress is always climbing with a partner that is at the leaast as strong and as motivated as me. If you can be the underdog of a group of climbers stronger than you even better. At least that worked for me.
You'll have a chance to try routes above your head (on TR if you want), your concept of "hard" will change, that will open possibilities and make you realize that that 12b is acgtually an 11d with 4 very hard moves, and you can do 60% of it...and it just goes up from there...since you have the base strenght already.
Try to climb well, not hard, climbing well will make you more efficient, so you can use the saved strenght on harder moves.


overzealous


Jun 21, 2006, 6:04 PM
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YOU might be a 5.11 slab climber and a 5.8 crack climber, LOL.

Dirtneye - excellent post. You also just described me so I had to chime in - 5.11 face goes in a few tries, and 5.9 finger crack pisses me off to no end.


life_is_good


Jun 21, 2006, 8:03 PM
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I'm going to jump in and reply before I read everyone else's posts ...

I too am where you are, at least sort of. People are always surprised at my strength for my size. We have a climbing gym here and I have got to the point where I'm bored with the .10 leads I do all the time. I decided to push myself onto the .11's by just DOING them. It isn't pretty sometimes, but I'm finding that I can do them now without hang dogging clip to clip.

I also started pushing myself on the .11 top rope routes, just to get my balance and technique more in line with what is necessary on the .11 leads.

Outdoors I'm perfectly capable on any .9 I've led and have led a couple of .10s. I'm going to keep putting myself up against them. I even TR'd an .11c recently, and I didn't even hang all over the place.

So my suggestion is to just put yourself on the .11's and push through. So what if you don't red point it? The first .10's I led (gym) I struggled all over the place. On those same routes now I feel smooth and strong.

I like to climb with friends who are stronger climbers than I am. I tend to push myself to climb stronger, as not to hold them back. After all, I do want them to include me the next time they're out! My regular partner is recovering from ACL replacement. I'm light years ahead of him but he's a good sport and belays me on stuff he won't touch yet.

My goal by the end of the summer is to be able to comfortably lead outdoors in the 10d - 11b range. We'll see. At the very least I hope to lead that range in the gym.

And having shared my 2, I'm off to read what everyone else says. I'm sure I'll pick up some good beta myself. Good post - thanks for asking it for me! :D


fracture


Jun 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
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Re: Progressing from 5.10 to 5.11 [In reply to]
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I currently lead sport routes in the 5.10a/b range and trad climb up to 5.8/5.9. I have avoided top roping climbs this year and try to lead everything I climb. I find top-roping sort of messes with my head a bit for leading. I have a bouldering wall in my garage but not a local climbing gym in my town.

What is your bouldering level?

If you are capable of doing V1's or V2's on your home bouldering wall, the answer is that you don't need to progress from 5.10 to 5.11---you're already climbing 5.11. You just aren't very well-rounded about it.

If you are capable of 5-move 5.11 boulder problems (which might be rated "V2"), but have no chance on a 20 meter 5.11 route, part of (in fact, I'd wager most of) the problem may be that you don't know how to do easy moves efficiently. Another part of the problem may be that you have poorly developed aerobic (or even anaerobic) endurance compared to your maximum power. Still another part of the problem may be that you are not comfortable climbing (or falling) when roped up, and climb excessively statically as a result.

Also, it is good to try to do some of your movement training outdoors---not just on your home wall. Many aspects of climbing are significantly different from rock type to rock type, and plastic is basically just another rock type. I have met many climbers who totally crush in the gym, but on outdoor limestone fail to effectively apply their strengths to the rock (generally by failing to find or use important types of footholds that are rarely simulated in a gym environment, where the foot holds are usually large protruding bulbs).

Or maybe you're bouldering at 5.8/V0- and I'm guessing way off mark. There is a lot of good material in the book jt512 mentioned that can help you, either way, and it can help you self-diagnose weaknesses as well.


fracture


Jun 21, 2006, 10:47 PM
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... I've redopointed 5.12d.

Nice. It strikes me that "redopointing" is probably a more self-evident and descriptive name for ascents using rehearsal and hangdog tactics than what you meant to type. :D


karmaklimber


Jun 22, 2006, 12:04 AM
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Boulder.

However, don't solely boulder. You'll lose your endurance.


overlord


Jun 22, 2006, 12:09 AM
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Boulder.

However, don't solely boulder. You'll lose your endurance.

if you read the OP thoroughly, youd see that bouldering wont improve her climbing by much because shes already quite good at it. improving endurance and techique (possible weaknesses) will likely yield much better results.


antigrav


Jun 22, 2006, 3:32 AM
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... I've redopointed 5.12d.

Nice. It strikes me that "redopointing" is probably a more self-evident and descriptive name for ascents using rehearsal and hangdog tactics than what you meant to type. :D

Haha... If this wasn't really by design, it has to be the best and most meaningful typo in all of net-climbing history!

:D


piton


Jun 22, 2006, 5:51 AM
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top rope or sport climb(which are the same thing) 5.12


zeke_sf


Jun 22, 2006, 9:08 AM
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top rope or sport climb(which are the same thing) 5.12

Somebody having hard day? Need a little attention, huh? I know, I know, it feels that way sometimes Awwwww... :cry:


fracture


Jun 22, 2006, 10:15 AM
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top rope or sport climb(which are the same thing) 5.12

Somebody having hard day? Need a little attention, huh? I know, I know, it feels that way sometimes Awwwww... :cry:

Ah, a chance to spew about what caughtinside calls my troll-that-is-not-a-troll. :lol:

Heh.


jt512


Jun 22, 2006, 10:20 AM
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Thus, you will progress much faster if you work on your weakness rather than your strengths. The most important thing to do is correctly identify your weakness.

I have identified my weakness as back, bicep, and tricep strength.

And how did you "correctly" identify those weaknesses?

Jay


jt512


Jun 22, 2006, 10:25 AM
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... I've redopointed 5.12d.

Nice. It strikes me that "redopointing" is probably a more self-evident and descriptive name for ascents using rehearsal and hangdog tactics than what you meant to type. :D

Actually, I think I've inadvertantly coined the perfect term for repeat redpoint ascents. The redo-point.

Jay


zeke_sf


Jun 22, 2006, 11:20 AM
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top rope or sport climb(which are the same thing) 5.12

Somebody having hard day? Need a little attention, huh? I know, I know, it feels that way sometimes Awwwww... :cry:

Ah, a chance to spew about what caughtinside calls my troll-that-is-not-a-troll. :lol:

Heh.

"Spew" is right :lol: ! I've seen your threads before and they seem to be aimed at this upper echelon of climber who I really don't care about. I don't care if somebody frees the Nose on the world's longest TR or free soloes it. You are using the exceptions to define the rule. For me, there will always be a difference between sport and TR. Maybe that's my own mental lapse, but you keep on clipping on I'll just have fun climbing :) .


piton


Jun 22, 2006, 12:27 PM
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sorry zekeie no attention required :roll:

imo no difference

heck i would even down climb a sport line just like a TR


watchme


Jun 22, 2006, 1:52 PM
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Re: Progressing from 5.10 to 5.11 [In reply to]
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You are doing one thing correct; you picked one of the best usernames for this website. You're on your way to climbing 5.11

You mentioned something about "flailing" on some 11's on TR. Don't flail, work on them. Find a partner who is interested on working on a fun, challenging route (don't get too caught up in the rating game, ratings are not absolute measures of difficulty) and work on it. Try to get it on TR, then figure out the clipping stances and redpoint it. It may take you awhile, but you'll be learning techniques the whole time.

Also, work on your onsight skills. Try to onsight some harder routes. If you blow the onsight, give it a couple of TR burns (or lead, whatever) and then redpoint it. Don't leave climbs unfinished.

And finally, find routes that inspire you, and be sure to enjoy the challenge and uncertainty of trying more difficult routes. The process, grasshopper, it's all about the process.


deschamps1000


Jun 22, 2006, 2:00 PM
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Thus, you will progress much faster if you work on your weakness rather than your strengths. The most important thing to do is correctly identify your weakness.
I have identified my weakness as back, bicep, and tricep strength.

And how did you "correctly" identify those weaknesses? Jay

You correctly identify weaknesses through observing yourself and seeing in what situations you can't keep up with your buddies. I onsight close to my redpoint limit, thus I can determine that my ability to "read" routes is good. I rarely pump off of climbs, and thus I've determined that my forearms are strong. I can usually climb strong on vertical and less than vertical routes. The one place where I seem to have trouble keeping up with climbers of my ability level is on powerful overhangs. I have thus determined that my back, bicep and tricep muscles are my weakness. This makes since because when I used to lift weights in college, I never worked my back muscles. Thus they may be especially weak for my size (170 pounds).

So, essentialy, observe other climbers and think about your body & mind and it's strengths and weaknesses.


jeep4evr


Jun 22, 2006, 2:05 PM
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Pick up a copy of "How to Climb 5.12" by Eric Horst. I don't recall ever endorsing any book, but its actually got a lot of valueable information in it that I found extremely useful. Its formatted for anyone who is not yet climbing at the "elite" levels, but even a couple friends who are doing 12's now have found the book useful.


life_is_good


Jun 22, 2006, 2:15 PM
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Pick up a copy of "How to Climb 5.12" by Eric Horst. I don't recall ever endorsing any book, but its actually got a lot of valueable information in it that I found extremely useful. Its formatted for anyone who is not yet climbing at the "elite" levels, but even a couple friends who are doing 12's now have found the book useful.

He also has a website Training for Climbing and wrote Training for Climbing (it is $11 at Amazon.com)

I haven't done much reading at his website, but I like the exercises. Particularly the ones for your :wink: core strength.


jt512


Jun 22, 2006, 2:39 PM
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Thus, you will progress much faster if you work on your weakness rather than your strengths. The most important thing to do is correctly identify your weakness.
I have identified my weakness as back, bicep, and tricep strength.

And how did you "correctly" identify those weaknesses? Jay

You correctly identify weaknesses through observing yourself and seeing in what situations you can't keep up with your buddies. I onsight close to my redpoint limit, thus I can determine that my ability to "read" routes is good. I rarely pump off of climbs, and thus I've determined that my forearms are strong. I can usually climb strong on vertical and less than vertical routes. The one place where I seem to have trouble keeping up with climbers of my ability level is on powerful overhangs. I have thus determined that my back, bicep and tricep muscles are my weakness. This makes since because when I used to lift weights in college, I never worked my back muscles. Thus they may be especially weak for my size (170 pounds).

Isolated muscle groups are not likely why you have trouble on overhangs. More likely, you lack experience on overhangs, and thus have not learned how to climb them with efficient and effective movement. If so, then bouldering would likely be better training for you than doing biceps curls, pull-ups, and the like.

Jay


deschamps1000


Jun 22, 2006, 4:04 PM
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Thus, you will progress much faster if you work on your weakness rather than your strengths. The most important thing to do is correctly identify your weakness.
I have identified my weakness as back, bicep, and tricep strength.

And how did you "correctly" identify those weaknesses? Jay

You correctly identify weaknesses through observing yourself and seeing in what situations you can't keep up with your buddies. I onsight close to my redpoint limit, thus I can determine that my ability to "read" routes is good. I rarely pump off of climbs, and thus I've determined that my forearms are strong. I can usually climb strong on vertical and less than vertical routes. The one place where I seem to have trouble keeping up with climbers of my ability level is on powerful overhangs. I have thus determined that my back, bicep and tricep muscles are my weakness. This makes since because when I used to lift weights in college, I never worked my back muscles. Thus they may be especially weak for my size (170 pounds).

Isolated muscle groups are not likely why you have trouble on overhangs. More likely, you lack experience on overhangs, and thus have not learned how to climb them with efficient and effective movement. If so, then bouldering would likely be better training for you than doing biceps curls, pull-ups, and the like.

Jay

Nope. I have 6 years of overhanging bouldering experience. 2 months of pullups has increased my climbing ability drastically more than 2 years of focusing on bouldering. As I said the first time, you have the best idea of your weaknesses, and you should spend the time to identify it.


climbsomething


Jun 22, 2006, 4:16 PM
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If you want to climb harder, then get on stuff that's too hard for you. (That's been said) A TR can be helpful for getting comfortable with these new harder grades. It can be argued- and I would- that doing a TR with no falls is better style than bolt-to-bolting on lead for the sake of being on lead.

Which kinda makes a nice segue into getting the TR up: If you don't have a ropegun, get a patient belayer and a stick clip. Haul the stick up the route and basically A0 your way to the anchors, then come down, rest a bit (batmanning can be strenuous! :P ) and play. If anybody gives you the stinkeye for your method of setting the TR, give em the stinkeye back and/or offer them a run on your TR!

Fracture, I like you. I'm sorry I bailed on you, like, 3 years ago. Please come back to Tucson and I promise we shall talk the shit and climb the rocks, or at least the latter.


fracture


Jun 22, 2006, 4:35 PM
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Fracture, I like you. I'm sorry I bailed on you, like, 3 years ago. Please come back to Tucson and I promise we shall talk the s--- and climb the rocks, or at least the latter.

Heh heh. Yeah---I'll post or PM ya or something whenever I get around to headin' back to Tucson to see the folks and such. Somehow I've managed to get away with not going back home for a couple years running now.... ;)

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