Melting Mountains
How Climate Change is Destroying the World's Most Spectacular Landscapes........
A huge mass of rock(2 millions Cubic Meters) on the East face of Eiger is about to collapse.

(snip)

The geologist say that although this is a natural process for the Alps, it seams that these phenomenons had accelerated in the last years probably because of the over heating of the air on the planet.

The article went on to state that mountains falling down are perfectly normal, then glossed over it with 'but its speeding up!'

Anyone who persists in believing global warming is not a reality and a grim one is either a fool, an imbecile or a Republican.

Anyone who persists in believing global warming is not a reality and a grim one is either a fool, an imbecile or a Republican.

One thing to remember is that IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR MORE THAN 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS (in this last cycle).

Most scientists agree that humans are affecting the rate of warming now, but historically, these warming and cooling periods were natural. It's hard to say how much of the damage we are causing, and how much is natural. I don't think scientists can even be sure because the time period we've had for study is tiny in comparison to the time required for the earth's cycles.

However, there's no need to jump on someone for raising the point that some warming or cooling of the earth is natural, without calling them a Republican.

interesting fact: The North Pole is liquid ocean right now. Yup, amazing but true - time to change those globes in the schoolrooms to get rid of the big white part on top!

Do you happen to know if there's been any work done on Arctic ice core samples that would show whether there's ever been this level of melting in the Arctic? How old is the current ice cap over the North Pole (what's left of it)? 10k years? 50k? 100k?

gunkiemike Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: Re: East face of Eiger collapsing!

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the_climber wrote:
One thing to remember is that IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR MORE THAN 10'S OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS (in this last cycle).


Correct/forgive me if I'm putting words into your mouth...but your comment sounds to me like typical denial behavior: "this is just part of the climatic cycling that's been going on for eons". Anyone who believes this is an accurate characterization owes it to themselves to read (or see) Inconvenient Truth. The current global heating is far, far beyond historical patterns.

Hey, Nowhere did I deny humans have no effect on 'greenhouse gasses' in my post. I even said "Not saying burning fossil fuels and such is good for anything". I was suggesting we should look at other reasons as well.
Ans as for seeing "Inconvenient Truths"... I have a strong academic backround and have reviewed 1000's of accademic journals on climate chenge with a specific focus on various glacial and inter glacial periods throughout Earth history. As well as attending many symposiums on the subject, I have had many enlightening discussion with many Professors at various Universities across North America. There are many interesting facts that can be learned with a little research. Such as the average climate in the Canadian Tundra be up to 10degrees C hight prior to the last major Pliestocene glacial advance, and the regional temerature in the great lake region being at least 4 to 6 degrees C higher 14 to 16 years ago.
Other tidbits, far more greenhouse gasses are emitted by volcanic erruptions than are produced by humans. Ocean currents and their effect on climate is a poorly understood science and many experts in that field believe we are as likely if not more likely to enter into another period of glacial advance as we are the have even wider spread deglaciation (For example, the gulf stream moderates much of eastern Europes climate, however, it is uncertain how much cold melt water is needed to disrupt it and what hte effect of that are.)

I consider myself well read on the subject and am simple stating that both sides need keep an open mind on the subject. The medea is the poorest source for information on the subject. I prefer to get my information from academic sources, 'typically' less bull s--- there.

Hey, it's just some ideas. Take it for what you take it for. It's a debate best done at the local pub with a fine single malt scotch after a getting back from a great day of climbing. 8^)

There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system
as complex as the world’s climate. However there is now
strong evidence that significant global warming is
occurring1. The evidence comes from direct measurements
of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean
temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in
average global sea levels, retreating glaciers, and changes
to many physical and biological systems. It is likely that
most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed
to human activities (IPCC 2001)2. This warming has already
led to changes in the Earth's climate.
The existence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is
vital to life on Earth – in their absence average
temperatures would be about 30 centigrade degrees lower
than they are today. But human activities are now causing
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases –
including carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone,
and nitrous oxide – to rise well above pre-industrial levels.
Carbon dioxide levels have increased from 280 ppm in
1750 to over 375 ppm today – higher than any previous
levels that can be reliably measured (i.e. in the last 420,000
years). Increasing greenhouse gases are causing
temperatures to rise; the Earth’s surface warmed by
approximately 0.6 centigrade degrees over the twentieth
century. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
(IPCC) projected that the average global surface
temperatures will continue to increase to between 1.4
centigrade degrees and 5.8 centigrade degrees above 1990
levels, by 2100.

The scientific understanding of climate change is now
sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It
is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they
can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term
reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions.
Action taken now to reduce significantly the build-up of
greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will lessen the
magnitude and rate of climate change. As the United
Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change
(UNFCCC) recognises, a lack of full scientific certainty
about some aspects of climate change is not a reason for
delaying an immediate response that will, at a reasonable
cost, prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with
the climate system.

Any action taken now will likely be too little, too late, and possibly irrelevant. Which is not to say we shouldn't try.

Anyone who persists in believing global warming is not a reality and a grim one is either a fool, an imbecile or a Republican.

But there's nothing to indicate that unusually warm weather is specifically responsible for this collapse on the Eiger. And geologists are at pains to point out that such rockfalls are a natural part of the process by which mountains rise and ultimately fall. "This is just part of the mountain cycle — it would have happened anyway," says Christopher Kilburn of University College London, who studies landslides at the university's Benfield Hazard Research Centre.

"Mountains are fundamentally unstable, otherwise they would just get taller and taller," Goudie explains. "The point does come where they get too tall for their own good."