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knate


Aug 30, 2002, 10:58 PM
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passive pro
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for an advanced CAM/CAD class i got into at school we get to choose all of our projects we make and design(and test), i decided it would be fun to create some crazy passive pro....but am running out of ideas at this point. anybody have anything they would either like to see or just some off the wall idea(we might make some nuts in the shape of elephant heads). thanx
knate

[ This Message was edited by: knate on 2002-08-30 23:14 ]


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 30, 2002, 11:06 PM
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Try making a better "Big Bro" (chock), as the one's out now are not very stable or secure enough to trust for Trad climbing.


knate


Aug 30, 2002, 11:43 PM
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I really dig that idea...even thought about it...it would just end up with to many parts anyway ive figured out thus far.at the moment im just out of ideas for some insaine solid pieces
knate


fitz


Aug 31, 2002, 1:03 PM
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rrrAdam,

I'd agree that Big Bro's aren't perfect, and really take some practice to place well. But, most the time, I'd rather fall on one of them instead of a #5 Camalot.

Just personal preference. But, one of the few times I tried the 'sliding top rope' method on a offwidth with the #5, it sprang and slammed me on the head while I made the move. That really made me think twice about just how much security I was really buying by expending all the effort to slide it along in the first place!

On the main subject, I always thought that a hybrid between a copperhead, micro stopper, and screamer might be interesting. Basically, if you fall on it, you probably can't clean it without a chisel, but it doesn't explode the crystals it is sitting on as frequently as an RP, etc.

-jjf


pelliott


Aug 31, 2002, 2:28 PM
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A new kind of Big Bro would be great. The Trango brand expands with a spring and locks off with a ring. The spectra cord just attaches directly to the outer tube. What if the attachment point was a cable instead that attached to the inner tube and actually caused it to expand when you fall on it. This would be a much safer device.

[ This Message was edited by: pelliott on 2002-08-31 14:28 ]


knate


Aug 31, 2002, 4:22 PM
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i really like the big bro idea...it looks awsome in 3D on the computer...ill have to try and make it later in the year. i think im just going to make a couple sets of nuts & hexes...im suppose to do something simple so when i pull the big project out it will look awsome.
thanx for all the ideas....ill work with the the big bro. if there are any more that come up like some odd shaped nut or anything please send it. ill try to make it and if it works and comes out to be worthy ill try to return the favor(maybe send a few to whoever had the idea). thanx again
-knate-


clmbnski


Aug 31, 2002, 6:36 PM
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I have to also disagree with the comment that big bros are bad. My friend took a thirty foot fall onto one placed in crappy sandstone and it held. The two opposing sides of the crack have to be pretty parallel but that is my only problem with them. Maybe redesigning where they contact the rock to offset strange rock features, I also like the idea of the cable expanding the tube.


apollodorus


Aug 31, 2002, 8:05 PM
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The really large Big Bro's suffer from the diameter of the tubing being too small. 3" tubing would be better.

What about doing up some double-headed stoppers? You could have a #4 at one end of the loop and a #5 at the other. As long as the cable can be pulled through for clipping in, it should work great. Basically, you get both the #4 and the #5, but only have the weight of one piece of cable.

I've found that commercial stainless steel aircraft cable I buy runs about 0.005 - 0.008 over the nominal size (i.e. 1/8" cable is actually about 0.130 - 0.133). So, you'll need to measure your cable, and then use a wire-gauge drill of the right size for the holes in the stopper blocks.

The swaging of the cable is not trivial, though. A Nico-Press tool will work, or you can make up some dies from tool steel and use a big press. You can also use a piece of stainless steel tubing as a fitting, and silver braze the cable into both ends. The clearance between the cable and the hole in the tubing should be as small as possible (zero clearance press fit is best). Since you can't ream the tubing (trust me on this one), you can enlarge it a bit by using mandrel of the right size (drill rod, eh?) that you grind to a taper on both ends. You drive the mandrel through the tubing by supporting it on a steel block with a hole in it; don't forget to use a mandrel that is a few thousandths over the desired size, to compensate for springback. You'll need to taper both ends of the mandrel, so it falls out after to drive it all the way through.





whipper


Aug 31, 2002, 8:43 PM
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KONG already makes the double headed stopers


arlen


Aug 31, 2002, 11:36 PM
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You know those placements that need both concave sides on a nut, or both convex sides? Regular stoppers fit ok, but what about a nut that has convex+convex and concave+concave in the same general size?



knate


Sep 1, 2002, 1:01 AM
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thanx again for all the ideas. ill try the fat big bros idea later this fall when i have alot of time to work on it. the convex/convex and concave/concave ill work on, seems like an awsome and simple idea from now. im still totally open for ideas, the more diverse the project the better. thanx again
-knate-


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Sep 1, 2002, 4:02 PM
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   About those big bros, how about a balljoint on one end so that it can be used on uneven non parrallel sided cracks. The balljoint could be at the opposite end from the attachment point end.

If you really want to go ape over some pro then how about a new form of active pro which could incorporate an adjustable locking mechanism like vice grips have. Wind it out and then go click which locks the jaws against either side of a crack?

...Phil...


wlderdude


Sep 2, 2002, 8:05 AM
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If any of these ideas are patentable, will the school get the patent? You may want to look into it. There is no telling how much you could make licensing a patent to a manufacturer.


knate


Sep 2, 2002, 11:45 AM
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i dont think my school is smart enough to pantent any of this stuff, but thanx. i did kinda go ape s--- on designing some active pro while on a little camping trip.
i think i figured out an awsome way to minimize moving parts and put pivoting "feet" on a big bro. how much are patents anyways?
-knate-


knate


Sep 4, 2002, 1:17 PM
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any other ideas out there? im still open to them. thanx
-knate-


kungfuclimber


Sep 4, 2002, 2:04 PM
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This is sorta like the concave/concave idea. T nuts. Nuts that look like a "T".

This would be for those places that have a very thin opening but plenty of room behind.
The idea is that you can feed the "T" into a thin opening and then twist it so it can't come out again. Perhaps having one arm of the "T" smaller would open up more pro possibilities, like:

{there used to be a drawing here but I can't seem to get it right}

Some aspects of the design to play with are:
* the ratio between the long and short arms of the T
* the thickness of the T
* the shape of the stalk (round seems logical but may be harder to make)


[ This Message was edited by: kungfuclimber on 2002-09-04 14:05 ]

[ This Message was edited by: kungfuclimber on 2002-09-04 14:06 ]


krack-head
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Sep 4, 2002, 2:08 PM
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Maybe if you made nuts that looked like little fists that would be cool. and the shape would still be practical


krack-head
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Sep 4, 2002, 2:10 PM
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good idea KFC!!!


krack-head
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Sep 4, 2002, 2:21 PM
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for the stem or stock I would say a stout cruciform or like a triangular (for strength) seems like that would be less likely to bend when shock loaded (but maybe more prone to snap?????)


caerbannog_rabbit


Sep 4, 2002, 2:26 PM
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use a cable instead of nylon or spectra for quickdraws they would be more durable

[ This Message was edited by: caerbannog_rabbit on 2002-09-04 14:33 ]

[ This Message was edited by: caerbannog_rabbit on 2002-09-04 14:33 ]


Partner drector


Sep 4, 2002, 2:44 PM
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How about an active claw for aid climbing? Something that closed as it was weighted to grab onto small protrusions that are not big enough to sling or are oriented downward?

It's not passive but it could look like a pair of salad tongs. Darn... Maybe I'll throw one together in my garage and try it on top rope.


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Sep 4, 2002, 3:22 PM
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 Not the craw. I said craw not craw. Hey I like the salad tong idea. Lemme know how you go I might just order some salad tong aid climbing trinkets eh.
...Phil...


wlderdude


Sep 4, 2002, 3:41 PM
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A preliminary patent costs $75. It lasts for one year. The real deal is expensive, so the idea is to get a preliminary patent, turn in the project, then license it to a big company who will have the atourneys to do the real one. The only catch is for int'l patents, you can't tell anyone about the design without having them sign a form of non disclosure. In the US you have 1 year from disclusre to file your preliminary patent.

That's about all I know. I have been toying around with the idea of patenteting some of my brilliant ideas. There are plenty of book and stuff out there if you are interested.


transse


Sep 4, 2002, 4:11 PM
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I have said it before, but an offset version of Camps Tricams would be sweet. The originals are some of the best peices of active/passive out there. If only you could place them in flares or irregular pockets more effectively.

Jake


knate


Sep 4, 2002, 8:59 PM
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wow...thanx again to everyone. kfc, i really like the "T" nut idea, ill think about it and try to figure out how to make it work, the problem is that it would need constant pressure to keep it from sliding and moving around. with these offset tri-cams......what do you mean? P/M me please and explain some more. thanx again, the more ideas the better, so please send any that come to mind.
-knate-

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