So it seems pretty clear why the NPS must ask for a voluntary ban since it would be unlawful to close it themselves in respect to one religion over another. In doing so, they would be imposing (establishing) the rights of one religion over another. In reality, there may be no real threat to climbing if you go since you could appeal based on the First Amendment.

GT

Maybe Frank should consider changing his name to Billy Graham since his religion only matters if it puts money in his pocket. He is full of s---. He does anything for an excuse to keep money coming in. I would think that him living so close to the tower he would take the month of june and go climb somewhere a little cooler. But he's a dick and wants to rub in the face of the native americans the fact that he can still climb there. If he really thought climbing on the tower was a religious pursuit he would take all the negative replies to his post personally and would surely post a reply. But the simple fact is that all he wanted to do was boast about how cool he is by saying f--- you to the natives, while plugging his business. So I say to Frank; You are a f---ing moron!

Maybe Frank should consider changing his name to Billy Graham since his religion only matters if it puts money in his pocket. He is full of s---. He does anything for an excuse to keep money coming in. ....But he's a dick and wants to rub in the face of the native americans the fact that he can still climb there. If he really thought climbing on the tower was a religious pursuit he would take all the negative replies to his post personally and would surely post a reply. But the simple fact is that all he wanted to do was boast about how cool he is by saying f--- you to the natives, while plugging his business. So I say to Frank; You are a f---ing moron!

now here's irony...at DT (and several other areas across the nation) certain routes, areas, or even entire crags are temporarily off limits to climbing for raptor nesting season...does frank ignore these restrictions, too?

Maybe Frank should consider changing his name to Billy Graham since his religion only matters if it puts money in his pocket. He is full of s---. He does anything for an excuse to keep money coming in.

But he's a dick and wants to rub in the face of the native americans the fact that he can still climb there.

So I say to Frank; You are a f---ing moron!

i just read this month's outside magazine...mark jenkins writes about DT...he's quite eloquent about the tower's beauty and spectacular climbing...he also provides some history

the NPS actually recommended a mandatory june closing, but the TRIBAL ELDERS rejected the plan...the TRIBAL ELDERS suggested the VOLUNTARY closing and asked, instead, that the NPS support education efforts to inform climbers about sioux culture...the TRIBAL ELDERS felt that if people understood their reverence for the tower, then people would be more likely to respect the native's wish that people not climb for one month out of the year

so, the TRIBAL ELDERS have done more than the NPS or frank sanders to preserve climbing access to DT

now here's irony...at DT (and several other areas across the nation) certain routes, areas, or even entire crags are temporarily off limits to climbing for raptor nesting season...does frank ignore these restrictions, too? would you celebrate frank's method of worship if he climbed over a falcon nest to show his respect for the bird? why are climbers so willing to accept closures for a bunch of birds but not for an entire culture?

Frank's personal beliefs are wrapped in, around, over, under and through Devils Tower in way that is far more devout than most other people approach their own religions. And he walks that walk all year round. Asking him not to climb the Tower in June would literally be like asking a Christian, Jew or Muslim not to believe in God for a month.

First off, climbers aren't a culture and climbing isn't a religion - climbing is recreation, a sport, or an art depending on your bent -

In your quest for political correctness, you seem to overlook the fact that religion and spirituality are free to be whatever we find them to be, and are not dependent on being brainwashed by our priests, rabbis, elders, or whoever the hell else try to instill into us their vision of god. Isn't everyone free to find spirituality or religion for ourselves, or is it the state that defines what is and is not "religion?" I belong to no organized religion and find it extremely offensive that you would even imply that you know what my "religion" is or is not. Just because I do not belong to one of the institutionally accepted cults does not mean that my spirituality is any less real to me than anyone else's is to them. Now please get off your moral high horse and STFU. BTW I've never climbed at the Tower in June, and I'm not even sure how I feel about the issue. How I feel about YOU spraying your morality, however, should be obvious.

I don't care what your religion / spirituality is.

Actually, I'm a born again and again atheist married to a climbing member of the Colville Tribe.

- but trying to cloak climbing in religious trappings for particular intent is a bad idea, bad policy, and disingenuous at best.

Umm.. Okey dokey, thanks for sharing?


Anyway... Just because you don't get religious or spiritual fulfillment from climbing doesn't mean that nobody does. Perhaps your atheism leads you to a superficial perspective on climbing, but for some people it could be the most meaningful experience in their life. What gives you the authority to say that this is not so? What gives anyone the authority to say that something that is sacred to them can not be sacred to someone else in a different way? I think this is a very narrow view. I agree that climbing the tower in June might be a bad idea, but calling someone's viewpoint disingenuous is very presumptuous of you, especially if you don't know the guy.