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tenn_dawg
Aug 31, 2002, 11:28 PM
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I'm sure that almost all of you know about roped jumping off of bridges, severely overhanging rock, ect. I have a question about different ways for the "jumper" to connect himself to the rope.
Tying into the middle of the freehanging rope, then coiling the excess over your shoulder would be one option, but you run into the problem of untying that knot after you intentionally cinch it down to the size of a pea. Also, it makes the process of either jugging back up the rope or, especially, rapping down to the bottom on the excess more complicated.
I have heard of using a Gri-Gri as the climbers connection to the rope, then tying in behind it as your backup. I also saw the late great DanO doing this on a climbing video that was intentionally not clearly showing his system. (not that I blame them, lets not forget how he died.) This would make the process of juging or rapping especially easy because all that you would need to jump with is one jug, and an adj. aider if you're are jugging, or nothing at all if you're rapping.
Has anyone ever used this personally, or seen anyone who has? I just don't know for sure if the Gri-Gri would be up to the forces that this would put on it. Also, there is an added chance of rope failure. I'm sure one of you has done it before, and can give me some beta.
Travis
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stevematthys
Aug 31, 2002, 11:49 PM
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i am not an expert, but i would highly recomend using a grigri, expecially for longer jumps, otherwise you will probably have to cut the rope just before the knot because the knot will be so tight.
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crackaddict
Sep 1, 2002, 12:51 AM
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It is not recomended to use a Gri Gri for this purpose.
But Dan Osman put it to the test. So that is up to you to decide.
Remember that the Gri Gri was not what failed him.
I have seen this done and know how not to do it. I had a friend that tried it and got stuck for a little while because he jumped with out bringing ascenders. Make sure to bring ascenders if you plan on tying off to the rope so you can unwieght the rope to untie.
Sounds like fun.
Good luck!
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whipper
Sep 1, 2002, 4:44 AM
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one way is to make a big bight of rope and basiclly tie a four stranded figure eight out of it. Get it? double the rope over that way your knot is way bulky and easier to untie. plus the bends are not as sharp therefore a stronger knot. Clip in with two binners. and dont forget to change your undies. go big or go home
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apollodorus
Sep 1, 2002, 5:09 AM
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I read that Dan-O jumped over the recovery line, so that his rope crossed it and that's what cut it.
Dan-O also favored dry ropes, because they're treated with teflon. The 10.2mm Mammut SuperSafe is treated this way, and is rated for multiple falls and is edge tested. But, you should use at least an 11mm dry rope; this is based on the thicker-is-stronger idea. I would say the 11 Mammut Flex dry is your best bet.
According to the Mammut website, the teflon coating increases the dynamic strength by allowing all the fibers to be loaded. Reducing the friction between the fibers ensures that it's so. Makes sense to me.
Then again, jumping off a bridge on a climbing rope, well, I wouldn't do it.
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paintinhaler
Sep 1, 2002, 5:26 AM
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Once again Bigwall 101, stupid knots not coming out, hit them with the hammer till they loosen up. Or you can take the knots to the land of the smerfs. They help me with my climbing alot. Litte blue guys.
[ This Message was edited by: paintinhaler on 2002-08-31 22:27 ]
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takeit4granite
Sep 1, 2002, 4:52 PM
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Before you go and throw yourself off anything check out the systems and calculations available on Petzl web site and on Yates web site.
My buddy Nathan is a math wiz and he e-mailed those guys for advice because they know the actual tolerances of the gear they build!!
Jump Safe or don't bother!!
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joebuzz
Sep 1, 2002, 5:37 PM
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Being originally from Lake Tahoe, I was lucky enough to hang out with Dano from time to time. It was in his back yard on a jug-tyrolean-rappel "race course" between two big pines that he started the whole thing.
Dano was a mechanics/ physics genius. He KNEW what he was doing. Already having lost one friend, my opinion is;" If you want to jump off something, learn to skydive"
Please just be careful!
[ This Message was edited by: joebuzz on 2002-09-01 10:37 ]
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tenn_dawg
Sep 1, 2002, 5:59 PM
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I've done this skydiving thing, and it got way to expensive way to quick.
I'm trying to ease into this whole jumping off thing. I'm big on the victory whipper at the end of an over hanging climb, and I'm just trying to get a little more of that. I am going to write Petzl and get their 2 cents. Mabey they'll give me something useful after all the filler about how they dont reccomend the Gri-Gri for anything good fun, or time saving. Ha!
Travis
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topher
Sep 1, 2002, 6:19 PM
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petzel makes a system for via ferata, called the zipher and i think that if you where to atach that to your rope it would work, also i like when doing mulit pich climbing adding a atachment a bove what your jusmping off will make a huge diffrence there is a big diffrence in force created in a 1.6ff and a ff of 2. fall factor 2 could snap your rope if you are taking a long fall because the the fore is still only 12kn (what ever your rope is rated for) but the longer you fall the more time your gear is put under this amount of force. and climbing ropes cant take extended periodes (like ,5 sec) of high impact force. all in all i dont recomend using rock climbing gear for this aplication.
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beyond_gravity
Sep 1, 2002, 6:26 PM
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Why would you want to do that?
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tenn_dawg
Sep 1, 2002, 7:32 PM
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Topher,
Are you suggesting that I anchor the rope, then run it through a higher piece of pro, then jump? Think about that for a minute. If that was done, then the weak link in your system would be the upper piece. The rope would multiply the force on that piece by 2.
Also, in response to another of your points. I feel that the longer the fall, and the more rope that you have out, the lower the forces on your system will be. Ever taken a lead fall when there was only about 10 feet of rope out? It's a wrencher. Take the same fall at the top of a pitch however, and it's cake.
And finally. If I shouldn't use climbing equipment, with it's quality assurance, sky high strength ratings, and outstanding companies backing excellent products, what should I use? A bike lock and 50 feet of chain duct taped to my ankles? What would you suggest?
Travis
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philbox
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Sep 2, 2002, 12:03 AM
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Ok, how`s this for a suggestion for creating an anchor which would never be shock loaded.
Find yourself a cliff where you have plenty of room to work along the top and a decent head wall a short distance back from the edge or dirty great trees will suffice for the exercise.
Now you will be wanting to create something analogous to a fishing rod. The fishing reel will be the dirty great bomber anchor which would never fail under any circumstances. The rod runners will be pulleys that the rope will run through as it makes it`s way in an arc towards the cliff edge. The pulleys will be attached to a series of screamers, the closest screamer to the anchor will be short and tough, the screamer closest to the cliff will be long and kinda easy to let go thus the whole system should share in one way or another allowing more energy to be absorbed, sorta like a whippy tip of the analogous fishing rod and a cascade effect is created down the rod towards the ultimate bomber anchor.
Of course you will be padding the edge of the cliff well and much attention will be made to ensure that all of your rigging is well and truly backed up so that when the screamers are activated and come to an abrupt end they have other backups.
If you work it out well the main line will arc up from the anchor towards the edge of the cliff and will then as it aproaches the cliff edge will ultimately arc down to clear the edge of the cliff. Use up to a dozen redirections to achieve the desired shape of this arc. It will be a fairly flat arc
When all screamers have possibly been activated after the jump you should also have ended up with an arc but a different shaped arc, it will be a fairly severe arc after the screamers have been activated. Note that not all the screamers will even activate.
The anchor using this system would never be shock loaded. Note I am no physics geek and I am the biggest chicken going when it comes to falling or heaven forbid jumping so don`t ask me to test my theories.
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topher
Sep 2, 2002, 2:42 AM
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OK yes i am saying that you put a higher anchor. the higher it is the lower the Fall factor=less impact force witch is good for you! as for the farther you fall the lower the Fall factor. now it doesnt matter if you take a FF2 on 2feet of rope, there is the same impact force on the annchor as if you took a FF2 on 50 feet of rope. the only diffrence is that the longer you fall the long the anchor is put under that amount of force. From the sounds of it you dont know what your doing and i would say dont do it cause your going get hurt. read alot on Fall factors and force and impulse and impact force and any thing elese force related. then creat a safe system and test it with a weight that is 15% more than you, then revise it if it doesnt work or use it if it does, its your life so play safe or dont play at all
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bigwallgumbie
Sep 2, 2002, 5:27 AM
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Hey tenn-dawg, you know any of the murphysburro/nashville crowd? A couple of my friends who live there had a 70' roped fall tree jumping parry. Might want to ask them.
I'm pretty sure dano was using a gri-gri backed up w/ two lockers. Kinda seems like the gri-gri might damage the rope but petzl say it slips at like 9kN or something (its on the site) which might help reduce the force on the anchors.
Yeah, a normal figure eight sounds like a good way to make your rope shorter. The double-double figure eight sounds like a decent idea. I've also had great luck w/ double bowlines w/ high loads (ie SHORT rope jumps and tightening hauling rigs w/ cars) and they come undone really easy.
Good luck dude. Ignore the naysayers, they're just chicken =)
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doosh
Sep 2, 2002, 5:35 AM
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The internet is a great palce to get detailed and specific information regarding dangerous stunts.
Use a "bowtie" knot.
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joemor
Sep 4, 2002, 12:01 AM
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if i was doing it id use two ropes, say a 70m clif one 50m rope one 60m rope both attached to different anchors, that way if the 50 failed it would absorb alot of the impact and the 60 would catch you.
joe
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goatsoup
Sep 4, 2002, 12:31 AM
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seems to me all you need to do is tie a rope to tree, make a noose and then loop around neck. then jump off watever you want. why waste time making such extensive anchors and back ups...the inevitable is bound to happen.
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ephemeral
Sep 9, 2002, 1:31 AM
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Waste of a perfectly good rope
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godsmybelayer
Feb 27, 2003, 6:58 AM
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Rope flying is perfectly safe, if it's done properly. Osman did something stupid, and thus he's dead! I do however agree that you need to learn alot more before you do something like this though...and as for your comment about not skydiving anymore becasue it got too expensive, what are you talking about...your going to destroy every peice of gear you use in this in one day, especially the rope....how much do you think that's gonna cost? $1000 do be jump qualified, and then like 30-40 dollars a leap even if you don't have your own parachute....dude jump from clouds, skydiving blows rope flying out of the water by a long shot!
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w6jxm
Feb 27, 2003, 7:09 AM
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The biggest thing to keep in mind when jumping is to try to involve some sort of pendulum (sp?) swing to help keep the forces down. DanO did this on most of his jumps. They were rarely straight down.
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