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saxfiend
Jul 26, 2006, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: only has posted only three pictures of people climbing. none of these people actually climbing are him, and all of the climbs are dirty chosspiles that someone could send on their first day out.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=70560
JL
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sidepull
Jul 26, 2006, 8:57 PM
Post #127 of 203
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sax, when there are plants growing out of the holds and the pro needs to be placed like young seedlings into recently churned topsoil then it still fits the description of choss.
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saxfiend
Jul 26, 2006, 9:04 PM
Post #128 of 203
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In reply to: sax, when there are plants growing out of the holds and the pro needs to be placed like young seedlings into recently churned topsoil then it still fits the description of choss.
I guess you think the Gunks was all nicely manicured and clean when people started putting up routes there in the 40s . . .
JL
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sky7high
Jul 26, 2006, 9:10 PM
Post #129 of 203
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Dirt
So, there are people that do stupid things while climbing, people do stupid things while shooting and people that do stupid things while walking in the park. While the concern is respectable, I believe you are no authority, so instead of going nuts, at least try to say things with some respect. still, even if so called "noobs" do stupid things this is not the place to yell at them, I believe every piece of climbing gear comes with a warning that says: CLIMBING IS DANGEROUS, SEEK QUALIFIED INSTRUCTION. so it is basically up to them and their instructors, if they have them
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wjca
Jul 26, 2006, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: sax, when there are plants growing out of the holds and the pro needs to be placed like young seedlings into recently churned topsoil then it still fits the description of choss.
There is nothing about that picture that suggest anything remotely resembling chossy rock. Vegetation does in fact grow out of cracks in the rock, and if you are going about removing all the vegetation you come across so you can have a "clean" route, then shame on you. You play it like it lies.
Besides, I'd totally sling that "tree".
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 26, 2006, 9:50 PM
Post #131 of 203
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In reply to: In reply to: sax, when there are plants growing out of the holds and the pro needs to be placed like young seedlings into recently churned topsoil then it still fits the description of choss. There is nothing about that picture that suggest anything remotely resembling chossy rock. Vegetation does in fact grow out of cracks in the rock, and if you are going about removing all the vegetation you come across so you can have a "clean" route, then shame on you. You play it like it lies. Besides, I'd totally sling that "tree".
More to the point, why isn't he bolting that roof. :lol:
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oldfart
Jul 26, 2006, 10:13 PM
Post #132 of 203
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Hey, here's an idea: When somebody posts bad advice, you should SUE the fuckers.
How's your other lawsuit going, by the way?
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caughtinside
Jul 26, 2006, 10:19 PM
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In reply to: Hey, here's an idea: When somebody posts bad advice, you should SUE the f---. How's your other lawsuit going, by the way?
It isn't slander if it's true. :x
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hammerless_7
Jul 26, 2006, 10:33 PM
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Hi all just somemore useless info some of you in this last page think that dirt's routes look a little dirty DIRT IN EYE get it. Any of you wankers ever onsite a dirty crack before ( not that kind ) the one with trees and flowers growing out of it... No didn't think so or you would have dirt in your eye too, every route you guys have ever led has had someone thier first and in a perfect world the climb was done onsite ground up by someone with balls ( no dont go looking in R.E.I. for these ) so you two are pissing on F.A. ers now and have never had dirt in your eyes... F__KING PUSSIES
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sidepull
Jul 26, 2006, 10:40 PM
Post #135 of 203
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In reply to: In reply to: sax, when there are plants growing out of the holds and the pro needs to be placed like young seedlings into recently churned topsoil then it still fits the description of choss. :roll: I guess you think the Gunks was all nicely manicured and clean when people started putting up routes there in the 40s . . . JL
Sorry, but this:
In reply to: "IT was very dirty. Many Placments had to be dug out."
Sounds like choss or at least vertical topiary gardening. At best the photo only proves that Dirt has roped up but it does nothing to discredit the choss claim. I don't keep a trowel on my rack - but that's just me.
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sidepull
Jul 26, 2006, 10:48 PM
Post #136 of 203
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In reply to: Hi all just somemore useless info some of you in this last page think that dirt's routes look a little dirty DIRT IN EYE get it. Any of you wankers ever onsite a dirty crack before ( not that kind ) the one with trees and flowers growing out of it... No didn't think so or you would have dirt in your eye too, every route you guys have ever led has had someone thier first and in a perfect world the climb was done onsite ground up by someone with balls ( no dont go looking in R.E.I. for these ) so you two are pissing on F.A. ers now and have never had dirt in your eyes... F__KING sissies
More incoherence. Because I couldn't completely understand you form of bastardized communication, let me point out a few things:
1 - onsight does not mean the same thing as FA, sorry.
2 - onsighting a crack doesn't mean finding a crack filled with top soil and digging out placements for your hands and feet.
3 - every FA of a crack does not involve finding a hanging garden and trimming back the shrubs.
4 - are you mad at REI because your local store does not feature one of these virgin, pristine dirt cracks that you are so fond of?
Don't get me wrong, I readily admit that new routes are more prone to have mank but that's not strictly a function of newness, it also has to do with rock quality and the FA's abilty to spot a compelling line. Obviously Dirt isn't climbing in Queen Creek but let's not just assume that every FA requires a shovel.
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112
Jul 26, 2006, 11:04 PM
Post #137 of 203
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sidepull you are ignorant, period.
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wjca
Jul 26, 2006, 11:07 PM
Post #138 of 203
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never equated dirty rock with chossy rock. I'll humbly admit if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
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sidepull
Jul 26, 2006, 11:14 PM
Post #139 of 203
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112 - would you like to expound on your "open-minded" comment?
Wjca - I agree - choss is not dirt, dirt is not choss. However, looked at the pick and reading about the amount of dirt it just doesn't look like a solid piece of rock or a compelling line. At this point I think we're disagreeing more about subjective aesthetics than anything really substantive.
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hammerless_7
Jul 26, 2006, 11:14 PM
Post #140 of 203
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[quote= let me point out a few things:
1 - onsight does not mean the same thing as FA, sorry.
2 - onsighting a crack doesn't mean finding a crack filled with top soil and digging out placements for your hands and feet.
3 - every FA of a crack does not involve finding a hanging garden and trimming back the shrubs.
4 - are you mad at REI because your local store does not feature one of these virgin, pristine dirt cracks that you are so fond of?
No shit Sherlock on #1 to #3
Now what if that crack had potential but was full of dirt and covered with lichen two inches deep. I would climb it onsite bag the fa and then rap clean it and make it look pretty for the masses at no charge how can you beat that.
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el_layclimber
Jul 26, 2006, 11:17 PM
Post #141 of 203
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This thread deserved to get hijacked anyway, let's talk about choss.
Choss can be pretty enjoyable. A friend and I did the second or third ascent of a route in Tucson that featured a lot of dirt, vegetation, runouts and loose rock. The first time we tried the route, it scared the piss out of me, and we both ended up bailing. We came back with a more rock warrior mindset and ended up finishing the route, and I would say it has become one of my favorites, especially for all the new skills I learned from it that you don't get climbing a route that has been groomed like a ski slope.
Climbing a dirt pile is one wy I can return to the childish joy and adventure that I seek in climbing. If you don't have scabby knees, a sunburn and filthy hands, you are wasting your summer away.
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cracklover
Jul 27, 2006, 12:40 AM
Post #142 of 203
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Here's a good way to look at it:
This thread is a chosspile. A trained eye can see from the ground that while there may be interesting moves in there, you can't trust a damn thing in it, and it'll be a mess from start to finish.
Other threads are beautiful lines, though they may have some cracks requiring deep digging to get at. JL's sliding-x thread is one such example.
As for all the other comments I could make, it's just not worth it. It'd be like trying to trundle a slag-heap. No amount of digging will uncover anything worthwhile.
GO
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sidepull
Jul 27, 2006, 12:41 AM
Post #143 of 203
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In reply to: [quote= let me point out a few things: 1 - onsight does not mean the same thing as FA, sorry. 2 - onsighting a crack doesn't mean finding a crack filled with top soil and digging out placements for your hands and feet. 3 - every FA of a crack does not involve finding a hanging garden and trimming back the shrubs. 4 - are you mad at REI because your local store does not feature one of these virgin, pristine dirt cracks that you are so fond of? No s--- Sherlock on #1 to #3 Now what if that crack had potential but was full of dirt and covered with lichen two inches deep. I would climb it onsite bag the fa and then rap clean it and make it look pretty for the masses at no charge how can you beat that.
does that give you a dfa?
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hammerless_7
Jul 27, 2006, 12:45 AM
Post #144 of 203
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does that give you a dfa?
No but it does give me the fa onsite, such a rare and beautiful thing.
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112
Jul 27, 2006, 1:04 AM
Post #145 of 203
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In reply to: 112 - would you like to expound on your "open-minded" comment?
I will try.
In reply to: Sorry, but this: In reply to: "IT was very dirty. Many Placments had to be dug out." Sounds like choss or at least vertical topiary gardening. At best the photo only proves that Dirt has roped up but it does nothing to discredit the choss claim. I don't keep a trowel on my rack - but that's just me.
At times a nut tool makes the best 'trowel' even when climbing 'older' well established routes that experiance runnoff that deposit sediment.
In reply to: 1 - onsight does not mean the same thing as FA, sorry. 2 - onsighting a crack doesn't mean finding a crack filled with top soil and digging out placements for your hands and feet. 3 - every FA of a crack does not involve finding a hanging garden and trimming back the shrubs.
1 - No one said onsiting connoted a First Ascent, but an onsight FA is still possible, no? Which, btw, some consider to be the best style possible, and I am one of those individuals (note that I have never done an onsite FA).
2 - Now you, I beleive, are using the definition you argued against in #1. No one said that doing a FA requires "finding a crack filled with top soil". But some really good routes await being 'uncovered' there is no doubt in that.
3 - Restraint should be used when 'establishing' new routes. IMO vegitation (not poision ivy, oak, or 'others') on route is pretty cool and makes me feel like I am exploring rather than just climbing 'sterile' rock. If the vegitation 'severely' hinders climbing, then of course remove it, but if it is just a 'nusance' leave it as it adds to the climb, IMHO.
In reply to: Don't get me wrong, I readily admit that new routes are more prone to have mank but that's not strictly a function of newness, it also has to do with rock quality and the FA's abilty to spot a compelling line. Obviously Dirt isn't climbing in Queen Creek but let's not just assume that every FA requires a shovel.
To me, mank speaks to the quality of protection, choss speaks to the quality of rock, and sometimes you can climb a great route (awesome views, great exposure, etc.) with mank protection on chossy rock and still have a hell of a time doing it!
When I wrote you were ignorant, I ment it as the word is defined - unaware or uninformed, not as many people use it today - stupid. I am sorry if you thought I was calling you stupid, I was not.
Finally, I think Dirt has been very 'uncool' lately and I personally dismiss much of what he writes, but that doesn't mean choss is mank, or onsite is a FA.
I am out of here. I will read more tomorrow.
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112
Jul 27, 2006, 1:31 AM
Post #146 of 203
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In reply to: No time for reply now, will have to keep this thread in mind for when I do. Sorry for the shortness of my reply at this time but I really do need to spend some time crafting a sufficiently intelligent reply. Be back after the weekend of climbing.
Did you ever "craft a sufficient intelligent reply". Maybe I missed it? I was really looking forward to it!
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skinner
Jul 27, 2006, 1:58 AM
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In reply to: Besides, I'd totally sling that "tree".
I agree, I'd of girth-hitched that "tree" in a heartbeat :wink:
OK, nuff about choss.. back to the OP's Topic (rant)
I have carefully read through all of Dirt's posts/rants in this thread and have condensed them into a quick summary for those who do not wish to read all 10 pages.
In reply to: someoen psoted topicd aboput harness slippage. totalt fvcking idots undersatnd peopel knoe you didn't, go fvck yourself. YOU fvcking stupid a$$hole, John Yates is not good enough a source for you? liek I climb with a pile of well known southern climbers, several of whom have been in the magazines! compalcency nany ingnorance reaches critical mess, people start to fuss, and pretty soon you have a fussion reaction. YOU are dumber than a brick., but I'm dyslexic, not drunk. IT's worse when I'm pissed, I am more than a little pissoffable but a blow job won't help with what I've got. As for me driving away readers, LOL, ask youself why people go to the race track? One day I hope to get to Arkansas THere, does that answer your question? Keep out of my message box
I hope this clears things up.
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 27, 2006, 2:53 AM
Post #149 of 203
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In reply to: In reply to: No time for reply now, will have to keep this thread in mind for when I do. Sorry for the shortness of my reply at this time but I really do need to spend some time crafting a sufficiently intelligent reply. Be back after the weekend of climbing. Did you ever "craft a sufficient intelligent reply". Maybe I missed it? I was really looking forward to it!
No I didn't. Thanks for bringing my words back to my attention.
We discussed this in the mods and eds forum and for all intents and purposes you the members are pretty much handling this issue with a large degree of intelligence. Curts not on the site for a week over this issue.
We have been extending Curt a fair degree of leniency due to his illness and all but we still do have to enforce a modicum of decorum. Curt being taken out of the equation means that the issues can be discussed with a degree of rationalism and in fact I am seeing that exhibited.
I thank you all for bringing the debate up to a reasonable level of thought.
Meanwhile I have been having private conversations with Curt pointing out that he does have some support for what he says just no support for how he says it.
This thread was swiped into the mods and eds forum but it was felt that it would serve a greater purpose as a learning experience for us all.
Yes, some of us do go off the rails on occasion, we do need to keep the inner beast in check. There can be extenuating circumstances for why a person can go a bit over the top. That of course is no excuse for us all to act in kind however.
Anyway, you the users have shown your ability once again to deal with harsh issues and I am heartened to know that the policy of leaving these types of issues out there for the members to deal with is the correct way to go.
Don't be surprised though if the mods jump in to threads like these and offer some advice as to behavioural items that we are concerned about.
Cheers.
Phil....
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el_layclimber
Jul 27, 2006, 4:17 AM
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[quote="philbox"] Curts not on the site for a week over this issue.
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In reply to: He is in the virtual equivalent of time out? Man, and I thought he had chilled out or had something better to do. You learn something new every day.
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