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roclimb
Jul 26, 2006, 4:39 AM
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It seems for quite some time now nheston has been bolting existing boulder problems at blue Ridge Run. I have PM'd him twice to inform him that at least 4 of the routes he has bolted and renamed were existing boulder problems but I have gottten no response.
I have to say its pretty poor ethics to have to reduce the standard of climbing to bolt boulder problems to begin with, then to continue doing it and renaming existing problems with names since the 1980's takes thing s one step farther. If any of the old timers go up there I expect a lot of bolts will start disappearing. Chop, Chop.
~Rob :(
P.S. There is a guidebook that was published in 1983 from LA Siesta press that mentions boulder problems/routes there and their names.
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sbaclimber
Jul 26, 2006, 4:43 AM
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Wow! If the photos from the area are any indication, the rock isn't even high enough to allow for highball problems, never mind something worthy of 'protecting' :?
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nheston
Jul 27, 2006, 1:41 PM
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To respond to your post Roclimb...You have made statements as though I have deviated from a tradition at blue run rocks. Just to let you know that the first climbs at blue run were bolted climbs put up in the 1970's. They were aid climbs not boulder routes. You will find a number pitons and yes, bolts(also placed in the late 1970s) on aiders rock and the main attraction. The guidebook that you mention contains nothing of route information. All it says is that there are some rocks at blue run that offer some climbing. If you have any information that the rest of us don't have please share it. Post some route names if you have them. The book you mention is out of print and I have tried to locate an old copy, but can't get it. If you want to complain about route names changing, then share the names you want used and we will gladly use them.
As far as the names go to the climbs... I have sent emails and made efforts to find the oldest names to climbs before we(that being a very active group of local climbers added new names.) I have used names in the guide from a variety of sources. People that I met at the rocks over the last ten years have given me some. Others were emailed to me and I have taken some from peoples posts here at rc.com. We aren't putting names on climbs to make ourselves feel important. We simply wanted something to call them by. So, once again, if you have any information about route names that you would like me to change please send it ( I haven't received any from you.)
As far as existing boulder problems being bolted. The only one that I can see you really throwing a fit about is that campfire has anchors at the top(btw I didn't put those anchors there.) But I thought that this route hadn't been sent before 2002 because I watched eric horst send it then and one of the crucial holds broke the first time he was pulling on it for the topout. Eric has climbed hard for many years and if a solid 5.13 climber chooses to rope up on this climb then I don't think you can blame the rest of us. Yes I have met a handfull of boulderers in the past ten years. More than 95% of the climbers that I have seen at blue run have had ropes. Which other routes have you bouldered that have bolts? Because each time any of us from the club tries a new climb it is always covered in lichens and dirt. They don't really seem like established problems to me. If you think that the old timers would like to come in and chop bolts why don't you ask them to start by chopping out their old aid lines.
I don't want to brush your post off as I too am concerned over ethics. If you have more concerns about the area, why don't you address them to the local climbing club. You can get there info from Wild Asaph Outfitters. They all seem to be quite happy with the area.
thanks,
nathan
(This post was edited by nheston on Sep 11, 2007, 4:27 PM)
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roclimb
Jul 28, 2006, 3:33 AM
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Nathan,
I certainly hope I dont come across the wrong way. I think its great that you are so excited about the area and I dont mean to be mean at all, I am just upset to see such beatyfull boulders chock full of bolts. Most of that stuff is just highball bouldering. I have no problem with top anchors, if people want to TR thats fine and great. True some of the origional lines had rivits and pitons however they were done free shortly after.
What book did you mean did not have names? The only reason I ask is because "Climb PA" circa 1983 lists the names of several routes there. Many, many routes were done as boulder problems and named after that book.
I will say that one of the routes on the "seneca" boulder you have bolted was not done as a boulder problem. No one should have any gripe about that.
As for history of the area Mike Pantellich was the first climber to the area, he developed a lot of the origional climbs there. "The campfire boulder Problem" was bouldered long before 2002. I bouldered it in the 90's, but I know I was not the first person to boulder it. Tim Toula has bouldered it as well as a half dozen other climbers. I know Eric Horst and will have to e-mail him, I am interested in other stuff he may have done there as he is a super strong climber.
As for other routes all sides of the first two boulders have been climbed free without bolts and two sides of the "seneca " boulder was done sans bolts also. You want to bolt stuff on the other sides, great, I agree that one side is pretty high. As for the other boulders--seriously, why bolt something only 10-15 feet high? You can boulder it/ it has been bouldered. So what if two lines had pitons on them. It was the 1970's, climbing has evolved tremendosly since then. Invest in a crash pad, not that you need one with the perfect flat landings there.
I dont mean to rant here and I hope we can come to an amicable agreement here, again I think its great that you are so active there, just leave the existing boulder problems the way they are. If you want to TR them thats cool, please just leave the boulder problems for people who want to boulder them with a pad. Its such a quaint beautyfull spot, the boulders are so natural, its sad to see hardware fixed all over them.
Best reguards
~Rob
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roclimb
Jul 28, 2006, 3:49 AM
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Nathan,
If you want to bolt stuff, I can give you directions to a lot of spots up that way that have freestanding boulders that are close to 70-feet high. That kind of stuff merits protection. Leave doable stuff for pads and a chalk bag.
Happy climbing
~Rob
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nheston
Jul 28, 2006, 2:58 PM
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Rob,
I just wrote a long reply to your post and it got erased. The essence of it was thanks for the info and I assure you that nothing 10-15 feet high will ever be bolted at blue run. Your info to other areas in PA would be greatly appreciated by the climbing club. I now live in the south and climb mostly in GA, TN, AL, and NC. I do get up to PA several times a year and I would like to climb with you someday as it seems you have lots of experience in the state. Also, if you could email me some more detailed information on Blue Run I would love to share it with people and put it in the guide. I'd be happy to make any corrections to routes/boulders that have been renamed.
thanks,
nathan
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deschamps1000
Jul 28, 2006, 3:28 PM
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Wow! Look at this! Something actually getting worked out in a productive way on rc.com! Well done guys.
Nathan, if you did unintentionally bolt routes that had been bouldered before, would you be okay with those bolts being removed?
Eric
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nheston
Jul 29, 2006, 1:09 AM
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The issue truly is one of safety. The area offers almost no traditional protection spare several climbs. The area is also a decent hike away from any help and of course there isn't a phone/cell service for miles. I agree that there are many boulder problems at blue run that should never see anything but a crashpad. However, there are also routes there that offer 35 foot falls. Should these be considered highball boulder problems? We all like to climb at or near are limits. Should the local climbers to the area only get on these climbs if they are willing to risk serious injury or their lives? I do not believe that there are bolted routes there that don't merit protection. However, I should defer such judgement to the local climbing community. I am off for a road trip guys...Have a good weekend.
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roclimb
Jul 29, 2006, 1:39 PM
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Nathan,
Thanks for the reply. I dont think anyone has a problem with one of the routes bolted on the "Seneca" boulder. I agree that boulder is real high on two sides and was never bouldered on those two sides. However, the 5.9 you bolted on the East side was done as a boulder problem. The second boulder in that has the bolted lines, all the bolted lines on that boulder have been bouldered withe the exception of "LA Roca" that was freed on lead with one peice of gear.
The point being bad falls or not a free ascent has already been done, hence the route is retrobolted. Highball bouldering really isnt that big a deal anymore, and the landings there are not that bad.
Some of that bolted stuff in only a few body lengths high (like18-feet).
Anyway I think the stuff on the seneca boulder could be acepted since the one route was never bouldered.
~Rob
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nheston
Jul 31, 2006, 11:23 PM
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nheston
Sep 11, 2007, 4:32 PM
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Thanks Cobleskill. I am glad you enjoyed the routes and climbing at blue run. I am glad you think the sport routes are a plus. Maybe I will get the chance to climb there with you sometime.
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dbrayack
Sep 11, 2007, 4:56 PM
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I received very similar responses when doing the Coopers Rock Bouldering Guide in West Virginia. I applaud your efforts and you ability to keep cool, even when others are not doing the same.
Keep up the great work!
-Dan
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desertwanderer81
Sep 11, 2007, 10:31 PM
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This thread should be sticked as an example.....
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Nate, 
