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sick_climba
Jul 18, 2006, 3:35 AM
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In reply to: BD? -what are you guys smokin? DMM's nuts are far superior to the BD Smiley/ABCs. *They are signifigantly lighter. *They are stronger. *The slight taper turns a wobblie placement into a bomber one. *They do not get stuck any easier than BD's. Lighter, stronger, better placements. What other criteria am I missing? I have a set of BDs and a set of ABC's which are used to TR only anymore. DMM: simply the best by a huge factor, not even comparable. Period, end of discussion.
:D
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kimgraves
Jul 18, 2006, 4:13 AM
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In reply to: Well, the long and short of it is that they are the original nuts. The current version is somewhat refined from the actual originals but that's mostly a moot point.
In reply to: I believe Frost nuts were the originals, or at least the first made in Yosemite, but Chouinard didn't invent most of the that BD now sells. I'd call this a case of smart marketing, to the point that people think a company that wasn't even in existence when clean climbing became popular is being credited for inventing the gear.
In reply to: Weren't Frost and Chouinard partners in the early days? Never claimed that BD invented the nut, that honor belongs to whoever came up with the threaded machine nut and some cord. Just that BDs were the first commercially available nuts. Better?
Better? Well actually:
Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost introduced their nuts - stoppers and hexentrics - in the early 70's under the banner of the Great Pacific Iron Works/Chouinard Equiptment Comp. You can see the '72 catalog here. Chouinard and Frost were partners in this venture. Both did the creative work and Frost, who was/is an engineer by training, did the design. In 75-76 the partnership dissolved with Frost going on to do other things and GPIW was reborn as Patagonia. Later the climbing business split off as Black Diamond - still keeping the original logo from Chouinard: the diamond with the C in the center.
There were earlier available nuts commercially available - such as the MOAC. But Chouinard and Frost were the first ones to mass market them and bring the idea of "clean climbing" to US climbers. Take a moment to read the '72 catalog - it's very much worth while.
Tom continues to make the original Chouinard/Frost stopper design under his own company - Frostworks. Personally, I still think they are the best design. Black Diamond continues to make the original Chouinard/Frost hexentric design.
Best, Kim
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p0bray01
Jul 18, 2006, 4:21 AM
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:lol:
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p0bray01
Jul 18, 2006, 4:21 AM
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I have aided on Black diamonds nutz and taken a fall on Wild country...I trust both. I think Wild country's are rated a little higher in strength if I remember correctly...but I gotta say...
Snoop dogg climbs with DEEZZ nutz..... and from what I hear he says they are bomber :? :wink:
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billcoe_
Jul 18, 2006, 4:43 AM
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In reply to: I have expected him to say " No seriously thats it, no more. I'm done and I'm out. Really I am, I'm f---ing gone. I'm tired of this conversation I am gone for real and I'm not taking any arguments.... I love you guys" :D
Well that's what I really mant to say. :lol:
Seriously, I climbed on Chouinard (some non-wired back in 72), then BD wired nuts for over 30 years. I think the new DMM nuts have them beat hands down in every way.
Tri nuts: tried them in Yos and they didn't work for me: at all. Ammon had used them in Zion and said he loved them there, but tried them in Yos and found that they won't work well there.
What does that story tell us all? Well, your results will vary. For sure. Rock characterisitcs vary wildy. Around here, 20 miles separating basalt cliffs can mean the difference between splitter cracks with great incuts for face holds and awesome stopper placements, or splitters with minimal incuts and you really want cams. Same kind of rock, different gear.
I believe that the Dmms had been redesigned from close to what the HB's were - to what they are now. Now, they are the best.
My opinion. "I am gone for real and I'm not taking any arguments.... I love you guys" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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andypro
Jul 18, 2006, 4:51 AM
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In reply to: Any opinions about this ? ...Buncha OP Trinut pics here...
I have the whole set and use them regularly. I have a mishmash of BD, Smileys, WC, and Cassin nuts for my "square set", all different sizes and shapes really, then I have the Trinuts as my other set. Sometimes they dont work, and a more normal nut is better, but other times (especially on my local limestone) they fit where a normal nut jsut plain wont go. I've gotten some great, otherwise impossible nut placements using them. But as usual, everyhitng has it's place.
If I could only take one set, I'd probably take the tri-nuts. Just more options in the long run, but you do have to practice placing them. It's a touch different than a normal nut.
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petsfed
Jul 18, 2006, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: Petsfed youare just wrong. Some rock formations take some nut styles better than others, and that's that. WHen you need offset nuts, the normal ones will not do.
I'll concede that much. But that's like offset cams vs. normal cams. Even so, I own only one set of nuts. I use only one set of nuts. And it has not been that much of a problem for me. I'm quite good at finding good placements for the set I have. But I'd be pretty well sunk the first dozen or so times you gave me a set of offsets in rock that they are "perfect" for.
Its not that it would take that long to adapt to a new set, just that for a first set, the differences, pros, cons, all of that, are lost on the average joe.
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notch
Jul 18, 2006, 11:00 PM
Post #33 of 51
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I bought BD nuts when I first started because they were so available more than anything else. I believe I'd read a Climbing mag review that rated them highly, too, for whatever that was worth. One reason I like them now is that because so many people have them it's really easy to climb with someone else's rack. No trying to figure out what will fit.
My absolute favorite nut is the BD #6 microstopper. I've placed it in something like 18 of the last 20 pitches that I've led. Good for a full 8kn too, I freaking love it.
Side note. The spelling on this post, far and away, is absolutely the worst I've read on this site. If you're not going to proof your post, there's a "check spelling" button that will do it for you! I feel as though I'm reading essays from a group of fourth grade, English as a second language, special ed students.
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elvislegs
Jul 18, 2006, 11:21 PM
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BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT'S WHY!!11111111one
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tradrenn
Jul 21, 2006, 12:09 AM
Post #35 of 51
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In reply to: English as a second language.
I'm one of them, you might as well get used to it.
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stymingersfink
Jul 21, 2006, 12:54 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: English as a second language. I'm one of them, you might as well get used to it.
In reply to: special ed students.
...and some might say that the rest of us on this site fit this bill. YOU might as well get used to it.
...afterall, you are one of us. :wink:
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dirtineye
Jul 21, 2006, 2:21 AM
Post #37 of 51
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In reply to: In reply to: Petsfed youare just wrong. Some rock formations take some nut styles better than others, and that's that. WHen you need offset nuts, the normal ones will not do. I'll concede that much. But that's like offset cams vs. normal cams. Even so, I own only one set of nuts. I use only one set of nuts. And it has not been that much of a problem for me. I'm quite good at finding good placements for the set I have. But I'd be pretty well sunk the first dozen or so times you gave me a set of offsets in rock that they are "perfect" for. Its not that it would take that long to adapt to a new set, just that for a first set, the differences, pros, cons, all of that, are lost on the average joe.
That MIGHT be true for a real dunce, but I think anyone could appreciate the difference between how a rectangular cross section nut would act vs an offset in a placement suited to an offset, if they had em both side by side.
One will wobble, the other will set nicely with little effort.
And I think that if you yourself were in an offset situation, adn you ahd a friends offsets plus your own retangualr set, you'd knwo instantly which to use. IT's like that. You place it, it fits SOOO well, that you get this inner smile going.
THE WC single wires are like that-- one placement and you are hooked.
And I don't even get a kickback from WC, LOL.
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cragnfrag
Aug 2, 2006, 9:31 PM
Post #38 of 51
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Posts: 39
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enough history lessons on nuts (at least for me) ... with
(almost enough) hard laughs over postings musing about
In reply to: cleaning my partner's nuts In reply to: looking at the size of my partner's nuts In reply to: comparing my nuts with his nuts In reply to: getting my nuts stuck
etc., etc.
now some useful info....
STP has sweet deal on BD #1, 4 and 12
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/...Climbing.html?page=2
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tradmule
Aug 2, 2006, 11:03 PM
Post #39 of 51
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I have both BD nuts and Rock Empire and I find them both good. The Rock Empire slide down the wires too easy though but they have an unusual shape that works very well. Variety is good for gear but you need to know a bit about where your climbing.
Mule
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jacobg
Aug 2, 2006, 11:22 PM
Post #40 of 51
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abc nuts, they are almost identical to bd nuts but for 60$ a set!
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fredo
Aug 3, 2006, 12:39 AM
Post #41 of 51
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In reply to: abc nuts, they are almost identical to bd buts but for 60$ a set!
hehehehe...you said nuts and butts....
Mike Judd aside, I really think it comes down to price. When I went looking for stoppers, I purchased what was on sale. At the time it was WC Rocks. I learned to use them and pretty much swear by them. I bet most people swear by what they have as well. My regular partner has BD stoppers, to me it's no big deal if we are on his rack or mine. BTW, a couple years back I took a 20 footer on my partners #6 Chouinard. Held like cement, unfortunately my ankle snapped like a twig.
my 2 cents
foimt
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jacobg
Aug 3, 2006, 2:32 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: abc nuts, they are almost identical to bd buts but for 60$ a set! hehehehe...you said nuts and butts.... Mike Judd aside, I really think it comes down to price. When I went looking for stoppers, I purchased what was on sale. At the time it was WC Rocks. I learned to use them and pretty much swear by them. I bet most people swear by what they have as well. My regular partner has BD stoppers, to me it's no big deal if we are on his rack or mine. BTW, a couple years back I took a 20 footer on my partners #6 Chouinard. Held like cement, unfortunately my ankle snapped like a twig. my 2 cents foimt
whoops :oops:
i was running out the door to grab munchies for my vegas trip :wink:
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ajkclay
Aug 3, 2006, 6:52 AM
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In reply to: BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT'S WHY!!11111111one
ok for the record i tried to give you a trophy but there is an error occuring, anyone got my back?
cheers
Adam
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billcoe_
Aug 9, 2006, 9:47 PM
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Well, stuff my last 2 posts down my throat. I went out the other day and brought my new Dmm "Wondernuts" that I love so much with me.
One guy kept complaining: Why don't you use the Wild Country Curve nuts? They work so much better here than these POS things or Black Diamond Nuts.
Probably heard it 3 or 4 times during the 5 pitch route. :roll: Variations" Wow, a WC curve would have stuck that placement." "Hey this damn thing wants to fall out, a curve sits right in here" "man, wish you'd said you didn't have WC nuts so I could have brought mine"......Blah blah blah...
I would have been embarrassed to say that the only WC I owned had been demoted to toproping status.
Ouch. :lol:
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mtnmia
Aug 9, 2006, 10:28 PM
Post #45 of 51
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The world of nuts!!! They are all great. I prefer walnuts and the most awesome little peanuts. But I also have a set of WC and BD, though they are not on the rack everyday.
Personal preference as always...
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catbird_seat
Aug 10, 2006, 5:22 PM
Post #46 of 51
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I don't like the Wildcountry nuts because they don't have the double taper in the wide axis that allows one to set a nut in a flared crack or groove.
The Rock Empire have a weird shape that sometimes gives a more stable placement than the BD, but they can be a bearcat to clean.
I have the Smileys that are quite similar to the BD, except that they are somewhat more polished on the edges. So are Huecos, the former Smileys?
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lemon_boy
Aug 10, 2006, 6:48 PM
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i'm surprised that nobody has really pointed out the primary difference between wild country rocks and BD stoppers. The primary difference is the ratio of width to depth, particularly in the larger sizes. For example, if you look at a #12 BD stopper and a similar sized WC rock, you will find that the BD stopper gives you 2 very different sizes, depending on if you place it normally versus placing it sideways. The WC rock gives only a slight difference in size. So, with the BD each stopper tends to give you 2 significantly different sizes. The WC stopper will give 2 very similar sizes, which can be helpful if you guessed just a little bit too big or too small, and you can just rotate the stopper to get another chance. This is primarily tru in the medium to larger nuts. when you get to the smaller ones, it is less pronounced.
i use many different stoppers, depending on where i am climbing, etc. when it comes to micro-stoppers, i generally carry one biner that has a set of hb offsets, a set of bd micros, and a couple old rp's. i find this really useful on routes that have sustained thin crack, as i can usually find just the right tool for the job. when you are dealing in micros, having a PERFECT fit is essential. for medium and large stoppers i carry essentially 2 sets that are a bastardized combo of dmm walnuts, BD stoppers, and WC rocks. ultimately it comes down to what works for you. however, it is a pretty good idea to be familiar with the primary brands, in case you climb on someone else's rack.
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mtnmia
Aug 13, 2006, 4:32 PM
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Amen!
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dbarandiaran
Aug 18, 2006, 10:26 PM
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time for my .02 i have used dmm, wc, and bd nuts. they are all good. my rack of nuts now stands at
wc 1-11
dmm 3-8
a lot of nuts perhaps, but having doubles in the medium sizes is crucial for me because i place tons of nuts, cams only when no nut placements are available. i chose wc over bd for strength issues, and wc over dmm as the full set because they are without the scoops. yes the scooped nuts are harder to clean. i do like to have the two different brand of nuts because they are subtlely (sp?) different in shape, so if one won't work, the other will. one more thing, slightly off topic, but i also carry some wc curved hexes, so infinitely superior to bd hexes. wc rocks! (no i am not sponsored :P and no pun intended either)
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kevinheiss
Aug 20, 2006, 8:57 PM
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one word, it's all about preferrence. I love BD because they are basic and like someone said, they don't get stuck as easily because the way they are made.
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