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donbcivil
Aug 8, 2006, 4:52 PM
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I'll be buying my first rope in preparation for a lead class next week and wanted to ask for recommendations regarding rope width. I aim to stick to sport routes of 1 or two pitches in length for the next couple years, since I'm still pretty new to climbing.
I had been thinking of going for a 10mm workhorse rope to start with and probably getting a narrower rope in a yera or two if I really need one. One factor to consider is that I'll be climbing with a buddy who's currently at 250 pounds; he's thinking a 10.5 mm rope would be better for him. Does that really make sense? Is that extra .5 mm valuable insurance?
My belay device is an ATC and I'd better make sure that it can deal with a pretty hefty rope, though it's been fine on belay with a selection of gym ropes.
Thanks, Don
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overlord
Aug 8, 2006, 5:22 PM
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that would depend on what kind of falls do you fear.
if the rope is likely to swing across edges or get caught behind flakes, than that extra .5mm could really make the difference. but not because of hes weight but because of the rope being cut. it does happen sometimes. but if youre really worried about it , get a double rope. but beginnner climbs with such dangers are rare and the ones that are kinda dangerous that way can be 'made safe' with a bit of common sense.
but if youre going to be taking mostly clean falls, than it makes no difference. all certified ropes are able to catch a clean fall of a 250 pound human.
it gets down to risk vs performace, like most things in climbing. do you want to risk a bit more and get a lighter rope or do you want to minimize your risk and get a heavier one.
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moss1956
Aug 8, 2006, 5:32 PM
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The fatter the rope the more abuse it will take before its used up.
As its your first, you should probably go with the thicker rope so it will
last longer. Also 10.5 ropes tend to be a little cheaper as they are
not as chi-chi as skinny ropes, so you will have more money to spend on
gas to get to the crag.
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caughtinside
Aug 8, 2006, 5:44 PM
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I'd get a fatty like a 10.5, especially since your partner is so heavy. Bigger diameter ropes tend to have burlier sheaths, so it will hold up better on tr rigs that rub.
250 is a heavy climber... get a thick rope.
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donbcivil
Aug 8, 2006, 5:53 PM
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In reply to: if the rope is likely to swing across edges or get caught behind flakes, than that extra .5mm could really make the difference. but not because of hes weight but because of the rope being cut. it does happen sometimes. but if youre really worried about it , get a double rope. but beginnner climbs with such dangers are rare and the ones that are kinda dangerous that way can be 'made safe' with a bit of common sense.
Thanks everyone.
We're both relative newbies and will be sticking to less dangerous, more fun routes so as to survive the learning process. I'll be leading a lot of the time and am more like 190 lbs, my buddy will be toproping. But getting a heavier rope for a little extra for insurance works for me, especially since I'll be falling on it in the lead class/test.
Thanks again, Don
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andypro
Aug 8, 2006, 6:39 PM
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don't worry about his weight in regards to the diameter of the rope. Unless he's a 500 pounder, it wont make that much, if any, difference. I think the key factor here is that you say your n00bs. This would tell me to recommend a fat rope. 10.5 or even 11. Why? Falling :twisted: Lotsa falling tends to kill ropes faster than any big person could. I weigh 225 and I climb on 9.8's and 8.5's! (of course, the 8.5's are half..but still). Find the rope that is rated for the most falls as a single rope you can muster. I point out the single rope part because twins are rated ridiculously high (15-22 falls!), but they're a more specialized sort of thing and one rope probably wouldn't hold one decent fall, let alone 20.
Also, more so than diameter, look at impact force. The lower the impact force the better. You'll feel alot less beat up after a long day with a rope that's got a lower impact force.
So, in summation, high fall rating, low impact force. Higher diameter will be more durable, but don't worry about your partners weight. It should not be a deciding factor.
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caughtinside
Aug 8, 2006, 6:49 PM
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In reply to: So, in summation, high fall rating, low impact force. Higher diameter will be more durable, but don't worry about your partners weight. It should not be a deciding factor.
I'm not saying the rope will break if he gets a skinny one, but a fall by a 250lb climber is a lot harder on a rope than one by a 150lb climber. A thicker rope will hold up better.
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bryceclarke
Aug 8, 2006, 7:50 PM
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If you are looking for a good deal...
I just bought an Edelweiss Axis 10.3, 60M from gearexpress.com for $119 w/ free shipping. They shipped pretty quick, too. This is anywhere from $20 to $50 off what you'll find elsewhere. We went climbing this last week on it and I'm a big fan. You should check it out. :wink:
Forgot to mention that it is dry treated as well.
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andypro
Aug 8, 2006, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: I'm not saying the rope will break if he gets a skinny one, but a fall by a 250lb climber is a lot harder on a rope than one by a 150lb climber. A thicker rope will hold up better.
I whole heartedly agree...hence the durability statements. All I meant was that the weight of his partner shouldn't be very high on his list of criteria as there are many other factors which will come into play, even with respect to his heavy partner. Whether or not the guy weighs 250, a rope rated for catching 10 falls is going to last longer than a rope rated for 5 falls. And a climber falling with a 6kn impact force is going to last longer than a climber falling with 9kn impact force :wink: That's all I meant by it.
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cruxy
Aug 8, 2006, 7:54 PM
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Go with the 10.5mm rope. By the time you guys are good enough that rope weight becomes a factor you will wan to retire your first rope anyhow. Start smart and go with the 10.5. You can pick one up for low $100 range at gearexpress.com. Check it out.
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krusher4
Aug 8, 2006, 7:58 PM
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Make your "big partner" buy the rope.
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p0bray01
Aug 8, 2006, 8:07 PM
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In reply to: Make your "big partner" buy the rope.
:lol: :lol: ....hey I was the big partner once.... :(
Oh well!
Your big partner will lose weight in a jiff! TRUST ME I was 260 when I started and now...2 years later...200. I reccommend looking at the mammut supersafe...or the Evolution series from Sterling. Both have held my whippers whebn I was 260 and 200. They are solid ropes. Both I think are 10.5's. Like one guy said use common sense...if the rope is running over edges try and extend your runners etc. Good luck and stay safe!
climb on!
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p0bray01
Aug 8, 2006, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: Make your "big partner" buy the rope.
:lol: :lol: ....hey I was the big partner once.... :(
Oh well!
Your big partner will lose weight in a jiff! TRUST ME I was 260 when I started and now...2 years later...200. I reccommend looking at the mammut supersafe...or the Evolution series from Sterling. Both have held my whippers when I was 260 and 200. They are solid ropes. Both I think are 10.5's. Like one guy said use common sense...if the rope is running over edges try and extend your runners etc. Good luck and stay safe!
climb on!
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donbcivil
Aug 9, 2006, 12:14 AM
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In reply to: Your big partner will lose weight in a jiff! TRUST ME I was 260 when I started and now...2 years later...200. I reccommend looking at the mammut supersafe...or the Evolution series from Sterling. Both have held my whippers whebn I was 260 and 200. They are solid ropes. Both I think are 10.5's. Like one guy said use common sense...if the rope is running over edges try and extend your runners etc. Good luck and stay safe!
I don't think he's chubby so much as just being a big dude...something like 6'4" or 6'5". And I hear he's WAY better at mountain climbing than me.
As for him buying the rope, I'm the one who'll definitely be taking lead falls in class on it....
Thanks all, for the tips including gearEXPRESS.com!
Don
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talnlnky
Aug 9, 2006, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: I don't think he's chubby so much as just being a big dude...something like 6'4" or 6'5". And I hear he's WAY better at mountain climbing than me. As for him buying the rope, I'm the one who'll definitely be taking lead falls in class on it.... Thanks all, for the tips including gearEXPRESS.com! Don
yeah, i've seen a few "thick" climbers as i would call them at the gym. They don't have high body fat, just a bigger structure and a little more muscle mass than what you normally see climbing. I myself am just another thin 6'4" 180-185lb climber.
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mountain_racer
Aug 10, 2006, 12:10 AM
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At 6'3" and 240lbs I say the thicker rope is important for you as the belayer of your large friend because of the extra friction the larger diameter rope provides in most belay devices. My wife certainly likes my 10.5 rope better than my 10mm because it is easier for her to catch and/or lower me because of the increased friction. We are using tubers/atc like belay devices and the difference is obvious, I don't know if the difference is as apparent with other devices.
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donbcivil
Aug 11, 2006, 5:19 AM
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In reply to: We are using tubers/atc like belay devices and the difference is obvious, I don't know if the difference is as apparent with other devices.
Good to know, since I use an ATC too.
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overlord
Aug 11, 2006, 7:20 AM
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yes, the difference in friction is also present with most other devices. as is the difference between a new and used rope (some new ones are slippery as hell).
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sonknee
Aug 11, 2006, 5:47 PM
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My first rope was a 10.5 and I have abused the hell out of it. My suggestion get the lightest 10.5 rope you can. 10.5 can take a lot of abuse and later after you gotten better you can invest into a smaller diameter.
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crotch
Aug 11, 2006, 6:48 PM
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IMO, your money would be well spent getting a rope with a middle mark or a bi-color regardless of the diameter. If I was buying my first rope again I'd pick the cheapest bi-color > or = 10.5mm I could find.
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coolklimber
Aug 12, 2006, 3:42 AM
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When I first did my lead test I bought a 10.3mm and I have been out to the crags and have done a fair amount of sport/leading on it and I haven't had any trouble. The .5mm will only help prolong the life of the rope. Ropes have UIAA test ratings and all that good stuff, so if you are concerned, have a look at those for strength. Your partner shouldn't be worried. Does he have his own rope? Will you be sharing it?
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ja1484
Aug 12, 2006, 5:45 AM
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I think 10.2 ropes are the definite sweet spot right now. Burly enough to take plenty of abuse, but slimmer than 11 and 10.5 mm cords, and it does make a difference in rope management, knot tying, and ease of coiling.
That said, if a 10.5 makes you feel more comfortable, go for it.
In reply to: At 6'3" and 240lbs I say the thicker rope is important for you as the belayer of your large friend because of the extra friction the larger diameter rope provides in most belay devices. My wife certainly likes my 10.5 rope better than my 10mm because it is easier for her to catch and/or lower me because of the increased friction. We are using tubers/atc like belay devices and the difference is obvious, I don't know if the difference is as apparent with other devices.
If you want to increase friction with a tube device, just use two or even three biners to clip in (depending on the rope bearing surface). My personal go-to belay biner is the DMM Big Boa Locksafe because of its gigantic rope bearing surface and extremely burly strength ratings (28kN closed, 10kN open, 12kN cross). They're a bit pricey, but worth every penny. A triplet of them go with me on pretty much any trip of any kind.
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stymingersfink
Aug 12, 2006, 7:57 PM
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In reply to: I'm not saying the rope will break if he gets a skinny one, but a fall by a 250lb climber is a lot harder on a rope than one by a 150lb climber.
I think you're over-generalizing here. This statement would be true given two climbers falling in the exact same circumstances, but the mass of the falling object is not the only consideration. The distance fallen and the ammount of rope available to catch the fall are also significant variables in the FF equation.
In reply to: A thicker rope will hold up better.
RGold has made many well received contributions to these forums. I might respectfully suggest you peruse some of his other posts and discover for yourself why my statements are true.
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