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clymber
Sep 3, 2002, 9:17 PM
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I just got some hooks and I am a newbie with them. Was wondering what is best for making slings Using webbing and a water knot or small cord and a grapevine or is there some other way.The hooks I got are BD 1 grappeling and 1 cliffhanger. Thanks
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rollingstone
Sep 3, 2002, 10:23 PM
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I like 9/16ths supertape tied in an overhand knot (leave enough end to cinch up tight as you stand in it), and stuffed through the eye of the hook. Practice and experience will dictate how long you can comfortably have the loop; I like to have about 4" of usable loop. I have only used hooks on granite, so I do not know if different types of rock might necessitate different sling lengths...
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pbjosh
Sep 3, 2002, 10:59 PM
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The overhand knot should also be on the outside of the hook, ie opposite the point that'll contact the rock. This will help cam the hook in/down towards the rock.
For cam hooks some people simply tie a loop through the hole - mine are currently slung like other hooks (overhand with the loop poked through) and I haven't had any complaints but I haven't climbed the Reticent either.
josh
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whipper
Sep 3, 2002, 11:16 PM
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They got it right but be sure to leave plenty of tail and check your knots before each wall. I actually had one come undone.
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manacubus
Sep 3, 2002, 11:50 PM
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I would recommend tying a loop on the cam hooks, otherwise you're prone to having the sling slide through and losing it. For regular hooks though, I tie as the others above suggest. One last thing - don't have the loop too long, you need as much height as you can get!
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taxexile
Sep 4, 2002, 7:47 AM
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I'll second what Manacubus says. On the weekend I was on a rather dodgy hook and the next (bomber) piece was just 1 inch out of reach. I had cinched my fifi and my sphincter as tight as possible and just couldn't reach it, necessitating a move up onto the second step in my aiders. I was cursing myself as I could have easily reached it had I tied the hook sling shorter.
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wigglestick
Sep 4, 2002, 1:42 PM
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Ok, dumb question. What is the second hole for on BD hooks?
As usual I have a theory. Maybe this is stupid and you all will point this out to me right away. What I do is tie the sling so that the overhand knot is bumping up against the top hole just like the picture shows (except in the top hole) and then I weave the inside strand (the strand against the hook, not the rock) back through the bottom hole. I did this because I lost a couple of slings by them dropping out of the hole. This method keeps the sling attached to the hook but also doesn't really change the configuration on the sling & hook.
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mountainmonkey
Sep 4, 2002, 3:38 PM
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The way I sling my hooks is to tie the sling with the double overhand as shown in the picture. I thread the loop end into the top hole of the hook (toward the rock) and then out through the bottom hole (knot on outside of top hole, loop end on outside of bottom hole). This makes it so the webbing doesn't interfere with the 'feet' of the hook. It only very slightly changes the way the hook is oriented on the rock - it causes slightly more outward force, but the difference should be insignificant for most routes. It is also harder to have the hook slide off the webbing. I also use a loop w/ water knot for my cam hooks - then they can't fall off.
Maybe there is a doctor in the house to clear this up? There is always a better way.
casey
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freeclmr
Sep 6, 2002, 9:10 AM
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last week Pete nearly yelled at me for having about 4" of loop off of my hooks. He promptly had me reduce them all with a overhand knot to about 1". He also recommended finishing off the 1" of loose ends with a strip of duct tape wrapped around them. I used them on Monday and gained 3" of height I otherwise would not have had.
Brian
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twrock
Sep 9, 2002, 12:38 AM
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Regarding the two holes in the BD model, I stuff one end of the tape through the top hole and one through the bottom hole, both from the rock side of the hook. Then I tie an overhand knot as pictured on the outside of the hook. The tape still runs on down the inside (rock side) of the hook where it belongs, but the resulting loop can not slip off the hook.
In other models of hooks there is something you can do to reduce the chance the loop will slip back through the hole. Take the loops out of your hooks. Use your trusty "Singer" sewing machine and sew a fat bartack about 1/2 inch below the knot, just below where the tape will hang down below the bottom of the hook. Make it thick. Now after you have a heck of a time reinserting the loop back through the hole, you will understand why this will help the loops not slip out. Additionally you can stitch the two loose ends together just above the knot to make it a little harder for the knot to slip and come undone. I suppose you could even go for "overkill" and fold the loose ends over once before stitching.
[ This Message was edited by: twrock on 2002-09-08 17:41 ]
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brisboy
Sep 11, 2002, 2:29 AM
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exatly like in the pic above, or get some one like fish yates etc to sew a sling through the both holes or just the bottom one, i have seen guys with all sorts of slings and a people have said before evn ones with slings a good 11" long make it short and neat.
Oh also remeber to pre strech the sling on a good place mnet near the ground, or clip the sling to a bolt or someting to make sur ethe sling is nice and tight, saves the little scare factor while on a hook move and the knot starts to slip in to place or through the hole
[ This Message was edited by: brisboy on 2002-09-10 19:31 ]
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apollodorus
Sep 11, 2002, 2:47 AM
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The second hole in the BD hooks is for properly tying the sling in. Notice that the hook can come off the sling.
The old Chouinard GPIW catalogs said that the webbing should go through both holes, and tie off with a water knot on the outside, leaving 1" tails.
Another thing you might do, if you want to have the sling come out of the bottom hole only, is to feed the ends up and around and out the top hole and tie the overhand there.
I guess you could also tie it the way in the picture, and then duct-tape the sling to the hook.
When you're on a wall, ANYTHING that can fall off will. Karl Baba has a funny story online (no, not at this website) about doing the Shield with guy who dropped his hammer ("The knot came undone . . . ").
Here it is:
Karl's Funny Shield Story
This link has been updated to the original with photos.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-12-19 01:47 ]
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drector
Sep 11, 2002, 4:53 AM
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I was told to use 1/2 inch webbing. Shoreline is the only place that I've shopped that has it and they indicate that it is for hooks. I heard of the lighter 1/2 webbing is also used for hero loops but I don't peg or pin or hammer on anything so I don't know.
I'm thinking of getting my hooks all sewn like that picture above (or on the previous page) shows on one of the hooks. Knots suck.
As for sewing the cam hook, since it is for body-weight only, I might sew it myself by by doing a double fold on the climber side of the hook. Any hints or condemnations are accepted on the idea.
Dave
[ This Message was edited by: drector on 2002-09-10 22:01 ]
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punk
Sep 11, 2002, 4:15 PM
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Hey Dave,
I see where u coming from, however Knots are great since u can manipulate the length of the tie and they are easy to make the sawn are good too if in need of a specific size and long time durability Ideally u will have a mixture of both methods to answer all
BTW
Don’t risk on stitching the "body weight only" sling yourself you much better off knoting it yourself, it is allot stronger, in case u don’t send it to be professionally install (its only $2.5).
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drector
Sep 11, 2002, 4:56 PM
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Punk,
Can you tell me where I can get a sling sewn for $2.50? There are a few custom items I want sewn and I'm ignorant on the subject.
I hear you about the sewing it myself. I read about self-sewn gear in the book "On Rope." It even talks about how many stitches to use to hold thousands of pounds. Items that hold more than body weight. They even show how to make some custom ascending gear.
I'll still have it done if it's under $5.
Thanks,
Dave
[ This Message was edited by: drector on 2002-09-11 10:05 ]
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punk
Sep 11, 2002, 5:08 PM
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Here u go man mountain Tools
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grigriese
Sep 11, 2002, 10:48 PM
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Drector,
Don't sew anything that your life depends on yourself when it is so cheap to have something sewn professionally. The pros use machines and nylon thread that is so heavy duty that you couldn't even really compare holding power with anything you'd do at home. I agree with punk, use mountain tools - cheap and professionally done. Your hooks witht heir sewn slings will be the envy of everyone with a bulk of water knots.
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paintinhaler
Sep 11, 2002, 11:35 PM
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I have saw people use them for hard sport climbs but keep them on there wrist. Whats with this?
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punk
Sep 11, 2002, 11:38 PM
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I think its some sort of modified FiFi and ability to rest method …but I never saw it…I don’t sport climb much
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paintinhaler
Sep 11, 2002, 11:42 PM
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They use then on there wrist and there hand over it. They can hit tiny holds and climb it easy. This is way cheating, isnt it?
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punk
Sep 12, 2002, 12:07 AM
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I will assume so…
HELL YEAH!!!
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drector
Sep 12, 2002, 12:28 AM
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grigriese,
Hooks aren't used as protection, just aid, so my life really doesn't depend on them unless I'm up there at A4 or A5 (or is that C4 or C5?). I have the proper thread and using a slow stiching method doesn't melt the webbing. I'm sure it would work fine.
No matter. It was all speculation. Now that I have the info, I'll have them sewn for me. Sewing is a pain in the ass and takes way too long.
I think they should sell them pre-sewn.
Dave
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bigwalling
Sep 12, 2002, 1:51 AM
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Hooks are used for protection.
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karlbaba
Sep 29, 2002, 5:34 AM
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The link Tom gave for my Shield Trip Report is for a text version. The one on my site with pictures is more fun! I find that hooks are especially prone to knot drift!read the trip report.
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