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Proposed 100% camping fee increase at J-tree!!
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bones


Aug 11, 2006, 3:04 PM
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Proposed 100% camping fee increase at J-tree!!  (North_America: United_States: California: Joshua_Tree_National_Park: _Joshua_Tree_National_Park_Overview_)
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*this thread formerly known as "We need more services at Joshua Tree".*

from http://www.nps.gov/...newsdetail24762.html


"NEWS
National Park Service Proposes Increased Camping Fees

Date
August 10, 2006

Contact
Teresa Edmonson, 760-367-5549

The National Park Service is proposing to increase the $5 per-night camping fee at Belle, Hidden Valley, Jumbo Rocks, Ryan, and White Tank campgrounds to $10 per night. Also, it has been proposed that the current $10 per-night fee at Cottonwood Campground family sites be increased to $20 per night. Golden Age and Golden Access passport holders would pay 50 percent of the increased fee.
The camping fee increases would be used to directly benefit visitors to Joshua Tree National Park through improved services and support for maintenace of park facilites.

Members of the public are invited to comment on the proposed fee increases. You may call the park at 760-367-5502, write to Superintendent Curt Sauer at 74485 National Park Drive, Twentynine Palms, CA 92277, or email jotr_publiccomments@nps.gov. The comment period will close September 1, 2006.

For additional information about the proposed fee increases, you may contact Fee Supervisor Teresa Edmonson at 760-367-5549."

So what services are you hoping we get? Personally, I want a lemonade stand at intersection rock!

Seriously, it's only been two years since the first increase. Should Jtree be more like Yosemite? How about Disney Land? Do we need more services for the gigantic fleet of RV'ers?


tradrenn


Aug 11, 2006, 3:33 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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:evil:


trapdoor


Aug 11, 2006, 4:18 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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I think it's a good thing. People are going to complain about it but the place will still be f'n Zoo when climbing season comes. An extra five bucks isn't even two gallons of gas. Let's not blow this out of proportion.


mturner


Aug 11, 2006, 4:26 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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I propose we jack up prices and decrease services...that outta keep out those pesky RVs.


bones


Aug 11, 2006, 4:36 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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If you're so bent on spending more money to go climbing, you could always donate to Friends of Joshua Tree or the Access Fund. At least then your money wouldn't be wasted on climber interpretive signs and other such nonsense.

If it only took two years to double the camping fees, how long will it take to double them again? Would you be happy with paying $20 per night? Maybe you're happy with throwing your money away, but I'm not.
Aren't you even the least bit interested in knowing where this money will be spent, considering that the park/monument lasted so long with zero camping fees?


chossmonkey


Aug 11, 2006, 5:05 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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The ONLY thing fees lead to are more fees.

J-Tree has a big history of dirtbagging. Maybe the extra money would be less than a gallon of gas, but that is beside the point. To a weekend warrior $5 is nothing. They have deep pockets and will be back to work on Monday. To a traveling climber $5 is a days worth of food living like a king. The fee as it is effectively slashes the amount of time that can be spent on the road right in half. Another $5 will slash that again.

Fees will not limit the over crowding. If anything it brings more people in by creating more infrastructure to do so. How many people would be there, climbers included, if you had to drive dirt roads all the way into the middle of the park?


trapdoor


Aug 11, 2006, 5:08 PM
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I guess the park service needs the extra money. Mabye they're saving up for a chopper to evacuate all the climbers who hurt themselves.


lunabruandabby


Aug 11, 2006, 5:13 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I propose we jack up prices and decrease services...that outta keep out those pesky RVs.

That is one of the most right on posts...ever! I wish I could rate today.

Justin


trapdoor


Aug 11, 2006, 5:14 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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And who cares about "dirtbagging". Work longer and save a little more money if you want to enjoy yourself. Thats like saying raising the tax on cigarettes will hurt the quality of life for a transiet bum.


hangerlessbolt


Aug 11, 2006, 5:14 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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Josh has definitely become a different place than it was even 10 years ago. (Damn, where's the time gone?)

Back then, I was just getting used to the handful of photogs snapping pics of us as we worked our way up routes... but I had a tough time getting used to the bus loads of visitors piling out and ooohing and ahhhing during my last visit.

Thank god the park's still big enough to still find some decent solitude. (No, I'm not telling you where)

Oh well, I'm sure there are worse problems to have. ;-)

Got our 5-acre plot just a hop skip and a jump from the West gate...should make for good times.

Cheers-


rockguide


Aug 11, 2006, 5:17 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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What are the proposed services? Water at the campsites? A pay phone?

$5 is alot of money for an outhouse and swanky signs. And now they are doubling it?


Partner blazesod


Aug 11, 2006, 7:06 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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I am stationed about 10 miles away from J-tree and this is my 2 cents- :evil:


The proposed services are simply part of the National Park Service's plan:

1. Turn J-tree in a profit making park
2. Attract more visitors
3. Hire more staff and give raises

Which is total b***s**t. America's natural beauty needs some protecting, however, putting a freeway through wilderness, then adding a parking lot and cafe so more visitor's will be attracted to it, is NOT protecting. Stop charging me to breath air and walk on American soil. Our freedom will only remain where we refuse control from others, even our own government.

What should we do? (pretty please with sugar on top)
:idea: write a letter or send email opposing this fee increase to the NPS

Thanks in advance, :)
-Dave


superbum


Aug 11, 2006, 9:30 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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FUCK THIS SHIT! I AM 300% AGAINST A RAISE IN CAMPING FEES. J-TREE IS RAPIDLY BECOMING THE WORST MANAGED NATIONAL PARK. FUCKING DISNEYLAND WANNABEES. LAST TIME I WAS THERE, I PICKED UP TWO FULL TRASH BAGS OF TRASH IN HIDDEN VALLEY. MY FIVE BUCKS A NIGHT WENT TO CLEANING TOILETS ONCE A FUCKING DAY WHILE BEER CANS AND PLASTIC BAGS WERE BLOWING INTO MY TENT!

FUCK THE NPS. PERIOD.


curt


Aug 11, 2006, 10:17 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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A Starbucks or two would be nice. Currently, the closest one is in Yucca Valley. :lol:

Curt


hangerlessbolt


Aug 12, 2006, 12:58 AM
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http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/...Tree_-_Starbucks.JPG


Partner blazesod


Aug 12, 2006, 10:22 PM
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Re: We need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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Any chance this would be fee increase could be related to the new NPS cafe located next to Nomads? I never see anyone using it since there are already like 10 better places to eat or get coffee from in the area.


hangerlessbolt


Aug 13, 2006, 1:04 AM
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Like the circle K...


cosmiccragsman


Aug 13, 2006, 7:49 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

2 trophies to Hangerless for his last 2 posts.


What I find puzzling, is the fact that they spend money
for signs with photos of the rocks and routes, but won't spend any to develope more campsites.

cosmiccragsman


hangerlessbolt


Aug 13, 2006, 7:51 PM
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Several years ago (when the NPS moved Intersection Rock *wink*), I was talking to one of the rangers.

I asked why he thought drills were banned in the park. He said, "Probably because they scare the animals."

I almost pissed myself as a bull dozer motor'd by.

I guess heavy construction (destruction) equipment is well-accepted by the lil' critters.






"People should not fear their government...the government should fear its people."


Partner blazesod


Aug 13, 2006, 8:27 PM
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Re: We don't need more services at Joshua Tree [In reply to]
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Bones,
Any chance you could change the title of this thread to something like:

Proposed 100% camping fee increase at J-tree!!

Thanks,
-Dave


chossmonkey


Aug 14, 2006, 6:47 AM
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In reply to:
Several years ago (when the NPS moved Intersection Rock *wink*), I was talking to one of the rangers.

I asked why he thought drills were banned in the park. He said, "Probably because they scare the animals."

I almost pissed myself as a bull dozer motor'd by.

I guess heavy construction (destruction) equipment is well-accepted by the lil' critters.






"People should not fear their government...the government should fear its people."


Not to get off topic, but the "reasoning" (if you can call it that) that they banned power drills, even for anchor replacement at Devils Tower is that they are too noisy and break the noise ordinances.

Meanwhile buses and motor homes belch exhaust and growl there way up and down the Park road, car alarms blare away, and every August the park is flooded with Harleys. Some how none of this is too noisy. Go figure. I could go on and on about how the Tower has been mismanaged for years, but its not the thread.

This proposal for another fee increase just shows how badly NPS is mismanaging all of the lands it has control of.


deschamps1000


Aug 15, 2006, 1:29 PM
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bump. Come on people, get involved, make a phone call, and keep this thread alive!


caughtinside


Aug 15, 2006, 3:05 PM
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For those interested in emailing, but are rather lazy, feel free to cut and paste my email:

Hello,

I am writing today to voice my support AGAINST the proposed camping fee increases.

Joshua Tree is a wonderful place, and I visit it at least once every year. A big part of the appeal is the isolation and lack of services. I would prefer to see the camping remain as it is currently, so there should be no need for the 'improved services' that the proposed fee would allegedly be used for.

Camping is an inexpensive, family oriented activity, and there should be as few barriers placed on enjoying our National Parks as possible. Particularly since the current camping fees have only been in place 2 years. This proposal would double the cost of camping in the Park. Also, the entrance fee was raised very recently from $10 to $15. Please stop raising fees, and keep the Park accessible.

Thank you,



The email address is: jotr_publiccomments@nps.gov


josephgdawson


Aug 15, 2006, 4:45 PM
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This is such a simple, yet profound observation it was worth repeating.

In reply to:
The ONLY thing fees lead to are more fees.

Unfortunately, most people are too stupid to figure this out. As far as I am concerned, the big government and conversationalist crowd is reaping what it has sewn. Suck it up.


mebunge


Aug 15, 2006, 6:21 PM
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In reply to:
This is such a simple, yet profound observation it was worth repeating.

chossmonkey wrote: The ONLY thing fees lead to are more fees.

Unfortunately, most people are too stupid to figure this out. As far as I am concerned, the big government and conversationalist crowd is reaping what it has sewn. Suck it up.

With all due respect to Messrs. Dawson and Monkey, and without taking a position on the J-Tree fee increase, I'm pretty sure it's lack of federal government funding (NOT past fee increases) that are necessitating this fee increase. Or maybe I'm too stupid to figure out how the NPS can keep up with increasing park visitorship (at Josh and nationwide) without raising fees or getting more money from Congress.

There was a good debate about NPS policies (including fee increases) in the December '05 Backpacker Mag, which unfortunately I can't find online. NPS is chronically underfunded. From '94 to '04, federal funding and entrance fees couldn't cover parks' costs, and park superintendents across the country say they get 50% to 60% less than they need.

By all means write the NPS and fight the fee increase. But write your Congressperson about it too. And for God's sake vote Democratic!!! (sorry, couldn't be helped).

Without the "big government and conversationalist crowd" (like Teddy Roosevelt?) there wouldn't be any J-Tree.

Mark

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