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z_rock90


Aug 7, 2006, 11:40 PM
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Range finder system
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I just bought a set of metolius tcu's and #'s 2 and 3 power cams. It seems as though the green placement range starts when the cam is all the way overcamed I think that yellow "caution" seems about perfect. Am I the only one who thinks this? :?


anykineclimb


Aug 8, 2006, 12:45 AM
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I agree, they're a bit off I pretty much ignore the pretty colored dots


trenchdigger


Aug 8, 2006, 1:09 AM
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Nope... I call it the Metolius Marketing System. If you place a cam in the green, you're much more likely to have to buy a new one 'cause you won't be able to get that one back. :roll:


rhythm164


Aug 8, 2006, 4:27 AM
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Personally I dont need to depend on a bunch of little dots to tell me a placement is good.


Partner epoch
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Aug 8, 2006, 4:31 AM
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Nope... I call it the Metolius Marketing System. If you place a cam in the green, you're much more likely to have to buy a new one 'cause you won't be able to get that one back. :roll:
You're supposed to place it in the green, so that I can come back after you leave and booty some shiny cams.


Partner j_ung


Aug 8, 2006, 5:45 AM
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You're close when you blame the Metolius Marketing Dept., but only because they didn't do a very good a job telling people what the dots actually mean. The more into green your placement is, the less likely the unit is to walk. That's all.


trenchdigger


Aug 8, 2006, 6:36 AM
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Where'd you hear that one? They seem to be pushing pretty strongly that it's telling you which size cam to use for that size crack. http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/camshome.htm If that actually is the case, then the whole idea is even more worthless. Yah, I guess if you fix a cam, it's not going to walk much... :roll:


z_rock90


Aug 8, 2006, 1:16 PM
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I don't need the dots to tell me If its a good placement or not, It jusst kind of makes me P.O I think your right trenchdigger Its a marketing trick.


fredo


Aug 10, 2006, 3:52 PM
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You're close when you blame the Metolius Marketing Dept., but only because they didn't do a very good a job telling people what the dots actually mean. The more into green your placement is, the less likely the unit is to walk. That's all.

Yep, I was told by the guys at RedPoint, who btw have to answer this question often. The green is the range where you get maximum holding power. So yeah, slightly overcammed will hold more, just don't whip cuz it won't clean for poo poo. What they don't say is what % of maximum do you get in the yellow or red? Why, they can't say with any certainy (sp?) what that percentage is. Rock type etc. contribute to this. Look at it this way. Whne your kid poaches your gear to go climbing, it will be a badge for them. "Oh yeah, my dad/mom climbed when they thought this silly color system worked." Of course by then it will be "my dad/mom climbed on this gear, holy shit!" I pretty much ignore the range finder on the cams that have them


Rock On!

foimt


trenchdigger


Aug 10, 2006, 9:06 PM
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In reply to:
You're close when you blame the Metolius Marketing Dept., but only because they didn't do a very good a job telling people what the dots actually mean. The more into green your placement is, the less likely the unit is to walk. That's all.

Yep, I was told by the guys at RedPoint, who btw have to answer this question often. The green is the range where you get maximum holding power. So yeah, slightly overcammed will hold more, just don't whip cuz it won't clean for poo poo. What they don't say is what % of maximum do you get in the yellow or red? Why, they can't say with any certainy (sp?) what that percentage is. Rock type etc. contribute to this. Look at it this way. Whne your kid poaches your gear to go climbing, it will be a badge for them. "Oh yeah, my dad/mom climbed when they thought this silly color system worked." Of course by then it will be "my dad/mom climbed on this gear, holy s---!" I pretty much ignore the range finder on the cams that have them


Rock On!

foimt

I think you have the right idea, but may be giving the wrong impression because of your wording. Because of the contant logarithmic spiral of a cam lobe, this explanation doesn't make any sense. The outward force (therefore holding power) is a constant function of the camming angle and load on the stem, regardless of how retracted the lobes are.

Of course, in poorer rock, a cam with lobes retracted more is less likely to tip out if some of the rock fails around it.


chrisgarner


Aug 12, 2006, 11:46 AM
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Hey this is Chris from down at Red Point, I am not sure who you talked to about the Metolius Range finder here at our shop, but, I am not aware that a fully compressed power cam has anymore holding power then a open "but active" placement. They guys down at Metolius swore they kept a constant cam angle "13.25" through out the entire range, so really the only benefit of a full compressed cam is the ability to compensate if the cam walked into a wider section of the crack...And yes, a cam will walk less if it is fully compressed, by that I mean Fixed! So beware that the green zone can mean more then safe, it could also mean more green out of your pocket! Be safe and be Bold...Chris G.


Partner ctardi


Aug 12, 2006, 8:26 PM
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IMO, they should do away with the green and yellow, and just keep the red zone as a heads up that it is way undercammed...


deltav


Aug 12, 2006, 9:41 PM
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Im surprised some dumbass hasn't killed himself due to stupid placements and Metolius been sued


docontherock


Aug 12, 2006, 10:06 PM
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Im surprised some dumbass hasn't killed himself due to stupid placements and Metolius been sued

Maybe the whole point is to avoid lawsuits by essentially "teaching" newbs to overcam (read "Place Fixed Gear") and therefore having less chance of a piece pulling in a fall.....


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