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paradyce
Aug 14, 2006, 11:59 PM
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This is probably a series of stupid newbe questions, but here goes....I watch climbers navigate inverted walls, but I drop after two holds. What level of strength does this require? What specific exercise is best? I would think that lat-pull-downs would be the best training. Do you have to be able to pull down your entire body weight to be successful on inverted walls?
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 15, 2006, 1:12 AM
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First of all, don't call them inverted walls. It's a roof. Second, the only training in the beginning of your climbing career you will need is climbing. Any other additional training will make minimal, if any, gains in your climbing performance. The only benefit to outside training would be weight loss.
But for now, climb...climb...and climb some more. It takes a while to develop the hand and finger strength, and muscular endurance to climb a roof. But, it is more than that. It takes good technique, proper breathing, and the ability to find good rest spots. To take pressure of your arms on a roof, you generally need to do something strenuous with your legs (i.e. heel hooks, toe hooks, stemming, drop-knees, etc.).
Climbing is generally the only thing that will improve your climbing performance until you get to an advanced level.
Hope this helps.
Josh
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sonknee
Aug 15, 2006, 1:18 AM
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Mainly you have to climb, climb, and climb more. Pull up won't help much. You are better off doing laps and a lot of traversing. Mainly what you are training to do is fight the pump.
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alexmac
Aug 15, 2006, 3:14 AM
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I completely agree, climb climb climb, your objective to climb anything below a five nine and not be out of breath or pumped.
Laps Laps Laps. bring lots of five's
Alex
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overlord
Aug 15, 2006, 7:00 AM
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if you can do 5-10 pullups, thats good enough for a beginner. its acutally better to be a bit weaker, because that will force you to develop proper technique (and too much strength will hinder it).
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devkrev
Aug 15, 2006, 12:26 PM
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I completely agree with the "climbing helps your climbing" statements, and I doubt any sort of extra strength training will do anything, but...
Wouldn't some cardio help with the endurance side of things a bit, though?
dev
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mturner
Aug 15, 2006, 2:47 PM
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In reply to: I completely agree with the "climbing helps your climbing" statements, and I doubt any sort of extra strength training will do anything, but... Wouldn't some cardio help with the endurance side of things a bit, though? dev
My guess is, at this level his arms will tire out before his lungs
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slowhand
Aug 15, 2006, 6:31 PM
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Cardio helps everything
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mturner
Aug 15, 2006, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: Cardio helps everything
Everything? Will it help me with my footwork?!
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redlegrangerone
Aug 15, 2006, 7:56 PM
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Actually, it might. Bad footwork gets a lot worse when you are tired.
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redlegrangerone
Aug 15, 2006, 7:56 PM
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Actually, it might. Bad footwork gets a lot worse when you are tired.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 15, 2006, 9:31 PM
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In reply to: Wouldn't some cardio help with the endurance side of things a bit, though? dev
Different type of endurance. Cardio helps your cardiovascular endurance, which is how much oxygen your lungs can take in and your heart can distribute in a given amount of time. THe more oxygen, the better the endurance. In climbing, we deal with muscular endurance. The longer your muscles can work without succumbing to the lactic acid "pump", the better your endurance.
Don't get me wrong, you should be doing some cardio. It will make you a healthier and happier person, but will have no impact on your climbing (except if weight is an issue).
Josh
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fluxus
Aug 15, 2006, 9:48 PM
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In reply to: I would think that lat-pull-downs would be the best training. Do you have to be able to pull down your entire body weight to be successful on inverted walls?
Don't get sucked into the "it must be the upper body" mindset. Sure you need to improve your upper body fitness but the thing that makes it possible to climb steeper climbs is the way the climber uses their entire body, the ability to properly create, hold, and release tension in the entire body, and further the ability to deal with the unique balance challenges found on steep routes and roofs. This requires increased fitness throughtout the body. Steeper climbs rely a lot on back extension, hip extension, the Abs to stablize the pelvis, the flexors and extenders of the knee, the hip abductors etc.
There really is no specific non-climbing exercise you can do to improve at this since the motor coordination is so complex and context specific. Just getting stronger will not teach you the movement necessary to get on steeper moves.
Find routes that are just past vertical that you can do multiple times in a climbing session. Do laps on these routes for a few weeks, learing the movement and the methods of moving that work. Then find slightly steeper easy routes and do laps on those for a few weeks. Keep doing laps and getting on routes that are very easy but a little steeper. Also learn how to do the following:
1- turn from side to side for each move
2- inside / outside / backstep flag
3- drop knee
4- move dynamically, that is with various degrees of momentum
Do these things and you are on your way. There is a good chance that you won't be able to do all this on your own so go take a few private lessons with an instructor.
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blitzkrieg_climber13
Aug 15, 2006, 10:33 PM
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oh my. to climb inverted walls you must be at strength level 14 with stamina low and pull high. you must practice a lot to achieve some inverted walls.
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udaho
Aug 15, 2006, 10:46 PM
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Man, I'm really impressed with the information everyone is sharing - I'll pin some of it up on my wall :wink: . If you're going to the gym anyway, there is some stuff that may be worth focusing on. Obviously, like has been stated, make sure you have strong quads, hams, gluts, and adductors (inner thigh). Upper body, people often forget about rhomboids (action pulls the shoulder blades together), and teres minor (internal rotator of the arm), and the traps - not just the upper, but middle and lower as well (the full muscle is shaped like a diamond covering most of the back. Lats are important, but not the end-all, especially whilst suspending yourself from the ceiling. I'd also like to mention proprioception, which is super important for balance - practice this by standing on one leg with your eyes closed. Just time yourself - if it's under a minute and you tip over, work on it. It's also really helpful for rehab-ing ankles and lower leg injuries. Mostly, as has been mentioned, climb - that's what all this is about.
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tarasteen
Aug 16, 2006, 12:33 AM
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When I started climbing I thought there was no way I would ever be good at it because I'm pretty weak, but I liked it enough that I kept going. Soon enough I learned that if I twisted my body this way or stepped and reached that way it just felt normal and fluid to climb. That's when I finally realized that technique is just as important as strength (at least until you get to 5.13s and the only thing to hold onto is the size of a button; yeah I'm not there yet).
Go climb.
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rockscaler2
Aug 16, 2006, 1:04 AM
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JUST CLIMB DUDE!!! When I used to climb at the Wall Street Rock Gym in NJ where Brian Kim AKA GearBoy from Team USA learned/worked, his partner Joe said he couldn't do a pull-up. Alot of people say it's all upper body lol they obviously have never climbed before, just climb dude, laps like all the previous posts said!!! :lol: :D Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
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rockscaler2
Aug 16, 2006, 1:07 AM
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JUST CLIMB DUDE!!! When I used to climb at the Wall Street Rock Gym in NJ where Brian Kim AKA GearBoy from Team USA learned/worked, his partner Joe said he couldn't do a pull-up. Alot of people say it's all upper body lol they obviously have never climbed before, just climb dude, laps like all the previous posts said!!! :lol: :D Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
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rockscaler2
Aug 16, 2006, 1:08 AM
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JUST CLIMB DUDE!!! When I used to climb at the Wall Street Rock Gym in NJ where Brian Kim AKA GearBoy from Team USA learned/worked, his partner Joe said he couldn't do a pull-up. Alot of people say it's all upper body lol they obviously have never climbed before, just climb dude, laps like all the previous posts said!!! :lol: :D Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
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rockscaler2
Aug 16, 2006, 1:09 AM
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JUST CLIMB DUDE!!! When I used to climb at the Wall Street Rock Gym in NJ where Brian Kim AKA GearBoy from Team USA learned/worked, his partner Joe said he couldn't do a pull-up. Alot of people say it's all upper body lol they obviously have never climbed before, just climb dude, laps like all the previous posts said!!! :lol: :D Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
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rockscaler2
Aug 16, 2006, 1:10 AM
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JUST CLIMB DUDE!!! When I used to climb at the Wall Street Rock Gym in NJ where Brian Kim AKA GearBoy from Team USA learned/worked, his partner Joe said he couldn't do a pull-up. Alot of people say it's all upper body lol they obviously have never climbed before, just climb dude, laps like all the previous posts said!!! :lol: :D Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
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fluxus
Aug 16, 2006, 1:30 AM
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In reply to: Try a book called "Training for Climbing" if you're really into it. Have fun!!
There is another book out there that addresses the issues aruond steep climbing in specific detail. ;-)
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lena_chita
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Aug 16, 2006, 2:03 PM
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In reply to: if you can do 5-10 pullups, thats good enough for a beginner. its acutally better to be a bit weaker, because that will force you to develop proper technique (and too much strength will hinder it).
I don't think the pull-ups are all that essential for a beginner. I couldn't do ANY pull-ups at all when I first started climbing. Not a single one. But I could climb easy roofs and overhangs anyway. After 2 years of climbing I can do maybe 3-4 pull-ups AT MOST-- and not b/c I've been practicing pull-ups, rather I can do them now b/c of all the climbing... And even now still for me at the level that I'm climbng (5.10-5.11) getting stronger is not going to improve things much-- getting better technique helps more. I am sure more strength won't hurt, but I personally like climbing way more than I like working out with wieghts (borrring!). There were so many occasions when I couldn't do some move and thought "oh, If only I were stronger, I could pull it off" or "if only I were 2 inches taller, I could..." And in each and every case I was able to work through that spot with help and advice from people who are way better at it than I am... And all of a sudden it turned out that no, that move didn't require me to do some one-handed pull-up, it just required better foot placement and twisting a certain way...
I think the key is to do a variety of climbing to develop technique. Watch good climbers-- notice how they use their feet, how they turn the hips to the wall, flag, backstep, etc. Try to repeat the moves. Ask someone to watch you on a route where you are having problem and ask for advice on how to make a specific move.
Bouldering at the gym really helped me with strength and getting comfortable with overhanging walls-- and working on technique. I never really did any sort of formal power/endurance training, but I do NOW try to have a day dedicated to just bouldering (power) and day when I do laps on easier stuff -- and vary things-- e.i. do a specific number of laps one time, or decide to stay on the wall traversing back and forth for 30 min, etc. It helps if you have a "buddy" who will keep you at it-- when you feel like 'O.K. it's been 20 min already, I'm bored stiff with this traversing, I want to come down now'.
And I'm always up for fun stuff, like add-on games (person one does 2 moves and comes down, person repeats the moves and adds 2 more, next person repeats the 4 moves and adds 2 more, etc-- can be done in a group of 2+ people), or "twister" (one person calls out the color of the hold, and you have to shift to that hold in one move), or blindfolded climbing, or climbing slabs with hand-smearing only, there are so many things...
Hey, you have to do stuff to make gym climbing interesting, and I can't climb outside during the week.
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paradyce
Aug 16, 2006, 10:57 PM
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Absolutely great information, thanks to all. Must have some exercise physiology people out there! --Paradyce
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pappy
Aug 17, 2006, 11:09 AM
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one thing to do is never let go of your grip master haha. bring that beast every where.
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