|
marckylove
Jul 20, 2006, 7:51 PM
Post #1 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2006
Posts: 44
|
I am planning on spending a couple of nights on some walls in yosemite this fall and have a logistical issue to work out. Please help. I weigh approx 130 pound and will have to haul a bag of approx. the same weight. I own a mini traxion and two pulleys. What is the best way to set up the haul so I have the best possible mechanical advantage? I would also like some helpful hints in hauling. I have climbed on the Leaning Tower and didn't haul because we didn't sleep. So, I have some experience in the whole aid climbing/small wall climbing but some more advanced type beta would be great.
|
|
|
|
|
pbcowboy77
Jul 20, 2006, 8:39 PM
Post #2 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2002
Posts: 574
|
Try this page.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20517#20517
I could go ahead and explain this whole thing but why when I can post a link.
Have fun and be safe,
Zac
|
|
|
|
|
sween345
Jul 20, 2006, 9:25 PM
Post #3 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 13, 2006
Posts: 252
|
Marc,when you get to Yosemite ask at the cafeteria or Camp 4 where you can find Chongo.He'll explain anything you need to know about hauling.PS Do you have any interest in Physics?
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Jul 20, 2006, 9:34 PM
Post #4 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
In reply to: Marc,when you get to Yosemite ask at the cafeteria or Camp 4 where you can find Chongo.He'll explain anything you need to know about hauling.PS Do you have any interest in Physics?
I'm pretty sure Chongo's out of the park.
|
|
|
|
|
sween345
Jul 20, 2006, 9:57 PM
Post #5 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 13, 2006
Posts: 252
|
Why?Did the judge banish him?
|
|
|
|
|
highlander
Jul 20, 2006, 10:27 PM
Post #6 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 52
|
I am a fly weight as well and having done numerous long walls and hauled bags over 200 pds. Get the biggest pulley you can find. The mini traxtion is only useful for really light hauls. The pro traxion is better, but if you can find a really big quality pulley and rig it with an ascender you will be able to haul easier. Body hauling and pulling up on the rope helps, make sure you tie yourself off long so you can get some momentum going to help get the bags moving. If you still can't move it, have your partner jump on the end of the rope like a counter weight and that will get the bags moving quickly and easy. However you do it, hauling sucks, just remember the bags will keep getting lighter.
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
Jul 20, 2006, 10:55 PM
Post #7 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
Get John Longs Big Wall Book and for God's Sake cut down the weight.
|
|
|
|
|
skiclimb
Jul 21, 2006, 2:42 AM
Post #9 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 1938
|
heh.. hauling on a wall is both easier and harder than you expect. moving the bag is not so rough.. pull up while weighting down and you can definately manage far more than your weight.
it all the damn snafu's ,edges roofs, snags and stuff that can annoy ya.
Im a big fan of the larger CMI pulleys in conjunction with a petzel ascender (they just fit nicely together.)
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Jul 21, 2006, 5:34 AM
Post #10 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
learn how to rig 2-1 or 3-1 hauling system
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Jul 21, 2006, 4:56 PM
Post #11 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Howdy:
I weigh about 130 and have found that, for the shorter walls in Yos (9-13 pitches) I can 1:1 haul my pig, even if I don't fix pitches.
My load usually includes 3-4 liters per day for 4 days, plenty of food, double ledge, fly, bivy sack, sleeping bag, storm gear, and whatever rack I didn't lead with. I leave the stove and extra stuff like that at home.
Even if for the first day or two the friction on the rock and weight of the pig result in something that 130 pounds won't move by just hanging there, you can push against the rock with your hands or feet or pull up on the rope with your hands (fingered gloves recommended here) and you'll be fine.
Know how to use a 2:1 or a 3:1 just in case, but you shouldn't need it for 5 days or less on a wall.
Hope this helps,
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
marckylove
Jul 25, 2006, 2:51 PM
Post #12 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2006
Posts: 44
|
Kate-
Any difference in longer Yosem walls (30+ pitches)? Do you find that 3-4 liters/day is sufficient/extranneous year round? Can I ask why you carry ledge, fly and bivy? and finally, what route do you recommend as first el cap route with lots of free climbing at 5.10 and easier?
Thanks for beta
-Marc
|
|
|
|
|
marckylove
Jul 25, 2006, 2:54 PM
Post #13 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2006
Posts: 44
|
Sounds like some good pointers that I'll be using.. appreciate it!
-Marc
|
|
|
|
|
veganboyjosh
Jul 25, 2006, 3:03 PM
Post #14 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 1421
|
i can't believe no one's suggested this yet, so i will.
the op needs to eat more ham sandwiches...
|
|
|
|
|
highlander
Jul 25, 2006, 3:28 PM
Post #15 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 52
|
In reply to: Kate- Any difference in longer Yosem walls (30+ pitches)? Do you find that 3-4 liters/day is sufficient/extranneous year round? Can I ask why you carry ledge, fly and bivy? and finally, what route do you recommend as first el cap route with lots of free climbing at 5.10 and easier? Thanks for beta -Marc
The Nose, Lurking Fear, and Salathe have the easiest aid and lots of free climbing. Salathe is a little more physical with the chimneys and wide climbing. All 3 are regularly done in a day by fast parties.
|
|
|
|
|
pbcowboy77
Jul 29, 2006, 7:45 PM
Post #16 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2002
Posts: 574
|
As far as carrying all 3 ledge, fly and bivi... Your always ready for anything. If you have to set up your ledge you don't need your bivi unless...it rains and your fly gets a hole in it. Or there are sometimes you don't need to set up your ledge but it rains, so why set up your ledge and fly for rain when you have your bivi.
Not everyone thinks this way. I just know Kate is prepared for anything to happen when she's on a wall. She may also have other reasons for taking up all 3.
|
|
|
|
|
mdavid01
Aug 16, 2006, 6:53 PM
Post #17 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 31
|
The obvious answer is learn from Chongo and go with a 2-1 Hauling system from his big wall book (www.chongonation.com)
Here's my rig, I lost the upper pulley but even as is it's much easier for me and my gal than a 1-1.
http://i57.photobucket.com/...01/HaulingSystem.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
krusher4
Aug 16, 2006, 7:53 PM
Post #18 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2005
Posts: 997
|
Drink more beer and gain some weight? Or just look at great pic mdavid posted.
|
|
|
|
|
groovemojo
Aug 25, 2006, 4:01 AM
Post #19 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2005
Posts: 11
|
Here's some gas for this fire:
I still can't see, despite all the discussion, why you wouldn't use a 3:1. It takes LESS gear than the setup picture above (no "extra" 6 or 7 mil haul line) and provides a 3x rather than a 2x mechanical advantage. Only disadvantage that I can see is that you have to reset the haul ratchet more often, which is not a BFD.
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Sep 2, 2006, 5:42 AM
Post #20 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Hi Groovemojo:
Sorry for the delay in response:
Water Requirements: In August when solo I drink 6+ liters per day low on the route (when hauling is more strenuous and I'm trapped in the heat. This includes stopping from 10-1 to hide from the sun. Ugh.) If its over 100 degres its really terrible up there.
In June or september I go for 3-4 liters per day. More if solo, less if partnered because you never just sit still and belay, you use more water.
During the winter 2-3 liters per day is fine.
I'm fine running a little dehydrated for the last few days of a short route. But you can only run at a deficit for so long. 4-5 days at a deficit and it just is horrible and can be dangerous. Most of us aren't as hard as the old dadz, we crash and burn on their rations.
Also, a 20% error on your water calcualtions is no big deal on a 5 day route...your last day is just miserable. A 20% mis-calculation on a 12 day route and you could need a rescue.
Re: Fly and Bivy Sack: Ha ha...Spend one night with water blowing up through the bottom of your rain fly/ledge material (it happens) and you will understand the bivy sack...ugh!. Additionally, if you are stuck inside a plastic tent (the fly) in a humid environment (a storm) for more than just a little while you will get condensation which will then drip on you incessantly, soaking everything. You'll want your bivy sack.
Finally, (and less likely, but still...) in winter storms frozen ropes or webbing whipping around...or a rock/branch rinsing over the lip of the climb...or the ledge blowing and rubbing/wearing against the rock can rupture your fly...best to have a backup.
I've climbed my share of winter walls, been stormed on and hailed on. I've had the same thing happen on summer walls. You just never know.
Re: Hauling - On longer routes, if you are solo, you may find that progress with a 3:1 is painfully slow. For every foot that you "squat" to make a hauling stroke, the bag moves about 4 inches. This means to haul a 150 foot pitch you must "squat" 450 times. You end up moving your own body weight up and down so much you waste energy and end up frigging furious.
If you use a 2:1 you go faster, with fewer squats, and you get more done with the work you invested in standing up or jugging on the line because you are moving more of the weight each time. The closer you bring the load you move to your own body weight, the more efficient you are. IE: Your squat moves 80 pounds, this is more efficient than your squat moving 40 or 60...
I know it may not make sense, but just try it both ways. There is a time and a place for both kinds of hauling, but a good rule of thumb is to move as much weight as you can per sqat (or whatever) without straining your back/hands/kidneys unnecessarilly.
First El Cap Route Suggestion: Climb the one you want to summit the most, b/c thats what will make the difference whether you summit or not, IMO. :)
Anyway, I hope this helps and I hope that you enjoy your climb. Sorry to run on and on about this stuff, but hey, its Friday night and here we are, so why not? ;)
-Kate.
ps - This above may be overkill for some, and thats cool. But I have a good success ratio in part because I don't run out of stuff and I shelter myself from the elements so a cloud in the sky doesn't mean a bail and I can keep going after a few days of storm.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Sep 2, 2006, 3:53 PM
Post #21 of 21
(9304 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
Kate you really know how to light up the town on a friday night, Excelent post!
|
|
|
|
|
|
