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whitribj
Aug 18, 2006, 11:53 AM
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What is everyone's favorite setup for quick draws? Wiregate and straight? Bentgate and straight? Do you prefer both the gates facing the same way? or opposite?
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joshy8200
Aug 18, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Straight and a wiregate, opposed.
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sungam
Aug 18, 2006, 12:47 PM
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oposed, as for the gates... whatever QD is on the fiver sdtand at tisos :P
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redpoint73
Aug 18, 2006, 1:31 PM
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If you rack the biners with the gates opposite, they will be more likely to flip over the bolt hanger and unclip itself as you climb past it. There have been many posts about this topic, so do a search if you need more info.
And yes, I have seen it happen.
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kevinheiss
Aug 20, 2006, 8:50 PM
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I have my quickdraws face the same way. It started of as a preference but later on learned how opposite biners can unclip themself. I tried it out myself and saw it how much easier it was to unclip itself from the bolt.
Kevin
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colotopian
Aug 20, 2006, 9:24 PM
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In reply to: Wiregate and straight? Bentgate and straight? Do you prefer both the gates facing the same way? or opposite?
mmm... yes.
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feanor007
Aug 20, 2006, 10:48 PM
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petzl spirit strait gate, mid length spirit dogbones, black diamod hotwire for the rope end and biners facing opposite directions
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theicemoose
Oct 13, 2006, 1:36 AM
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I'm with Double-0 Ale-8-1; Petzl Spirits are the bar none nicest top biner you can buy. Their bent gates are topnotch, too, but the BD Hotwire seems made to clip a rope into, and the Express draw, while pricey, is a hell of a lot more friendly on the hands than the skinny skinnies...save those for Levitation 29, and then only if you're linking the 5th and 6th pitch. Bottom line is, if ya ain't broke, climb on what you're psyched to clip, and if you're broke, clip whatever you can.
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timm
Oct 13, 2006, 1:57 AM
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Wire gates on both ends and gates facing the same way.
As a previous poster mentioned, they are safer with gates facing the same way. I believe that BD did a study a few years ago and this was their conclusion. I can't find a link to the report.
Cheers.
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omegaprime
Oct 13, 2006, 1:57 AM
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Biner preference - whatever is the cheapest and looks decent enough. I have yet to see the quickdraw as the limiting factor in my climbing. Orientation - facing the same way.
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overlord
Oct 13, 2006, 7:26 AM
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bolt end straight wiregate, rope end curved wiregate.
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redpoint73
Oct 13, 2006, 2:21 PM
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In reply to: Biner preference - whatever is the cheapest and looks decent enough.
For me, decent enough is a Petzl Spirit draw.
For those that have their biners facing opposite way, my opinion is that you need to change it. Its easier for the bolt-end biner to unclip itself as you climb past - and I've seen it happen. I used to rack them that way, too. I always figured "that will never happen". Then I saw it happen, was like "oh crap!" and I changed all my draws around that day.
When people who rack then with gates opposite are asked why they do it that way, the response is almost always "I'm used to it". Not a great reason, and if you change it, you will completely adjust to it in about 2 climbs.
Wiregates on the bolt end also make it easier for that bine to unclip itself. The hanger gets caught between the wires. If you look at BD's website, they sell premade draws of almost every conceivable configuration, EXCEPT with a wire at the bolt end. You don't need a wire at the bolt end, and unless its notchless, its gonna be a bitch to clean off an overhand or traverse anyway.
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rockguide
Oct 13, 2006, 2:37 PM
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alpine draws, two neutrinos.
sport draws, two solid gates.
Gates same way
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talnlnky
Oct 14, 2006, 7:39 PM
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i messed around with a few different biners before going out and buying a lot of draws. I tried out BD & trango wiregates, DMM Wirelocks, a few bentgates, one of the omega dirtbag draws.... and i think a few other biners. And by "tried out" i mean i bought them and threw them on a dogbone and started clipping with them.
ended up getting Omega 5.0 wiregate draws. Not too heavy, and big biners... big opening. makes it easy for people with big hands... or those who suck at clipping fast when on a desperate hold, which is me for both scenarios.
also... for me, Omega is a local company, they are based about 10min drive from my house.
OF all the biners i tried... i really liked the gate action on the trango wiregate... i just wish the biner was a lil bigger.
EDIT: thats wire gates on both ends. I also endedup buying those petzl draw protectors.. simply because i'm tired of the biner on the big end of the dogbone flipping around..... really annoying when you go to clip and you have to flip a biner around with one hand holding you on the rock.
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rocamosca
Oct 14, 2006, 8:10 PM
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Can someone please explain why a qd would unclip itself from the bolt if the biners are facing the oppoisite way? I've never seen this and am having a hard to visualising what you guys mean.
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tharlow
Oct 14, 2006, 9:35 PM
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straight gate, bent gate. biners facing same way. opposed and you risk unclipping rope/bolt.
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tharlow
Oct 14, 2006, 9:40 PM
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if you clip the biner on the hanger with gate facing the bolt and climb above it and, you can pull the gate into the bolt, opening it. if you clip the biner on the hanger with gate away from bolt, and the other biner is opposed, then you are good on the bolt side, but will have effectively back clipped the rope biner. don't know if this helps, if someone else can explain more clearly, they should do it. i see this all the time.
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desertdude420
Oct 14, 2006, 9:59 PM
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Picture this... Start with the bottom (rope end) biner and work your way up the draw considering the forces at hand. When you clip the bottom biner properly (with the rope running over the spin-not the gate) then climb above, the whole draw pivots and the bolt hanger either contacts the solid spine (good), or the gate (bad) of the top biner.
There's your answer. So now go check all your draws and make sure that the gates all face the same way.
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desertdude420
Oct 14, 2006, 9:59 PM
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Oh yeah, straight gate bolt end, 5" draw, wire gate rope end. Also, never use your bolt end biner to ever clip the rope! It will most likely have burrs or sharp edges from always being clipped to steel bolt hangers. Don't let your bolt biners kill your rope!
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ja1484
Oct 15, 2006, 12:14 AM
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Biners facing the same direction. The best biners are the ones that handle and clip best for YOU.
For my part, the DMM tru-clip (barrel gate, straight on bolt, bent on rope) is about the only sport draw I use, and for trad I prefer a custom blend of mammut 8mm Dyneema slings doubled around DMM shield biners (gear) and Wild Country Helium biners (rope end).
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bkalaska
Oct 15, 2006, 12:19 AM
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q-draw
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bkalaska
Oct 15, 2006, 12:23 AM
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g-draw
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bkalaska
Oct 15, 2006, 12:31 AM
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Small wiregate gear side
medium wiregate ropeside
gates to the same side
I just like the feel of wiregates. My thumb knows exactly where the gate is and it couldn't slip out of my hand if I wanted it to. After having all my old BD biners' gates get squeeky and stiff I saw no reason to use anything else and totally switched over.
I mostly climb trad, and feel that if I want to clip a biner to keep the gate on the gear side away from the rock so it isn't forced open, then the rock will be on the same side on the rope biner and I won't want the rock forcing that gate open either.
I also use a flexible 7 or 8 inch draw so a moving rope is less likely to move gear.
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climbingaggie03
Oct 15, 2006, 5:27 AM
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I like Wire gates for the rope end, Trango classic wiregates, or Omege 5.0
Straight D's for bolts, wire ovals or straight d's for gear.
I have my biners facing opposite ways, I usually clip the hanger with the biner facing away from the bolt and then clip the rope to the bent/wire biner. I don't see how this is more likely to come unclipped than with them both facing the same way. I can see if it's on a traverse or angling it might increase the chance of the gate of the rope end biner being opened by pressing against the rock, but that's the worst I can see happening.
I read the descriptions of how different facing biners can fail on a bolt, but it doesn't make any sense to me, does anybody have any pictures/drawings/video?
Also keep an eye on your bolt end biners, I was looking at mine that I've had about 5-6 years now and not only has the anodized finish worn off, but there are noticeable grooves where the bolt hanger has gouged into the biner. It doesn't look like a significant amount, but I wonder if there are any tests out there about the strength of biners once they start to get like this, or how long it's safe to use them.
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chossmonkey
Oct 15, 2006, 2:14 PM
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Notchless straight gate on top, wire gate on the bottom.
Gates facing the same way for trad. Facing opposite for sport.
For people worried about opposed biners unclipping, flip the top biner upside down, gate facing away from the direction of pull. If you are climbing more or less straight up the way your gates are facing doesn't matter.
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