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ter_bee
Sep 4, 2006, 11:10 PM
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well, i know it has been attempted before, but i'd like to be able to understand why some of us climb. i tell myself i will try to explain at least why i do, and immediately my inner censor flashes, "no one can explain!" i'm like a rabbit wondering why i hop.
everybody tries, right? it's in like 300 threads here, and we've all heard how climbing is :arrow: spiritual and :arrow: feels good and :arrow: is healthy and :arrow: gets one out in nature and away from evil drab modernity, and how it :arrow: brings out an evolutionarily latent longing to pull down that we inherit from our monkey ancestors. i find that last explanation plausible, but still. these answers ring hollow with me. if climbing were a religious experience, athiests wouldn't be motivated to do it. lots of things feel good. and if it were just a healthy release from urbanity, we could hike. it'd be a lot less effort. and i don't see why we couldn't satisfy the monkey gene on a chin-up bar or a set of rings. why go up rock? how dumb is that?
maybe it's true that no one can explain why we climb. i decided to start by trying to explain how climbing feels as well as i could, which might not be very well. but i thought the answer might be there.
(how climbing feels)
the non-climbers i have talked to seem to think the primary sensation involved in climbing is fear. perhaps for them it is, but if being afraid were a prerequisite, i would not be a climber. i suffer the fear because i enjoy the mental focus and the tug of the rock on my back and my fingers.
when i climb i feel several things: the rock, wherever i attach myself to it; a sustained pull that runs from my fingers up my arms and down my back; a solidity to my lower back and abdomen; and an unexpected objectivity, an inner calm.
:arrow: there is obviously a sensual aspect to climbing -- a heightened awareness of my own body, of the position of the rock face (or crack or dihedral or arete) relative to it. the necessity in most cases of staying close to the rock to keep my center of gravity positioned as much above my feet as possible. the varying textures, moisture levels, fissures, aperatures -- of all these i must be aware. and all the necessary pulling and palming, stepping and pressing have wonderful sensations that accompany the motions.
my body is alive to sounds too: the advice of my belayer, the solid snap! of a carabiner closing around the rope, the 'got!' after my desperate 'take!'
:arrow: but there is something better than sensuality to climbing, because a climb is a puzzle that must be solved by my body and mind together. my body can move and grip and feel its way, but it cannot plan and it cannot protect itself without my mind. my mind is always at least one bolt (or placement) ahead, planning trajectories and protection and testing its hypotheses. and focusing very clearly, very closely on the movements of the body.
(/how climbing feels)
when i reread the above i came back to an old hypothesis: when i climb, i have the connection that is almost completely absent from my everyday life: mind and body. my life is full of computers, math, the needs of a rickety old house, laundry and food. computers communicate exclusively with the mind and have no intrigue for the body; overflowing laundry baskets test the body and bore the mind. i don't do anything in the course of an ordinary day that brings my mind's focus so completely on my body. sex and yoga are the only two other activities that i can think of that help connect our mechanical and mental parts, and to my mind they utilize the mind much less than climbing does.
perhaps i've found my reason. i acknowlege that people can and probably do climb for different reasons, but i think this explains for me what climbing does that i don't get in the rest of my life.
i had hoped this little exercise would help answer a few questions i have about climbers, but i don't think it does. i still wonder about the personalities attracted to climbing: why so few have healthy relationships, for example. why friendships among climbers seem sometimes so impersonal and mercenary. and does climbing attract people like this, or make us like this? egg or chicken?
thoughts and flames are welcome.
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feanor007
Sep 5, 2006, 12:35 AM
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b/c it's subversive
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cosmiccragsman
Sep 5, 2006, 12:45 AM
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Good post Ter_Bee.
My thoughts;
I climb because of a chemical imbalance, called, OAD. :D
Trophy to you, for trying to figure out why we climb.
I would venture to guess, that there is no single Absolute answer.
Cosmiccragsman
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mowz
Sep 5, 2006, 4:49 AM
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I have no idea why we, as men (not meant as a gender but as a species), climb. I, however, know why I climb.
I climb because I know I can be good at it. I know I can improve and when I keep going at a certain route or problem, I can succeed. I feel good knowing that I accomplished something I was working at. It's the same feeling I get when I'm out running. After all the endurance runs and speed workouts I've suffered through, I smile when I can do a 6 mile recovery run at a 6:57 pace and not have my lungs burn or my quads feel weak.
Climbing feels good because it gives me a sense of accomplishment. It feels good when I've worked a route three times, red-pointed it, and relax at night thinking that my fingertips are sore and my muscles will ache tomorrow, but I got some shit done. I did something I set my mind to.
Some may ask, "Well, you can get the same feeling through other hobbies." But other hobbies don't make me feel this good. I can't explain it. When I have an off day or when I go through a training period, it sucks; I know it pays off and when it does, I feel fucking good.
That's it for me, man. It's that simple: it feels good. No spiritual thing, no "one with nature", no flowing of energy, etc. It just feels good.
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ewtotel
Sep 5, 2006, 5:02 AM
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I'll give it a stab...but many men who were better writers than I have done so already...I generally let them speak for me. Reading what men like Edward Whymper http://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?page_id=41 have said about mountaineering is like reading my own thoughts, before I realized I was even thinking them.
We all have heard, "Because it is there!" But it is so much more to me...I find it hard to explain to people who don't know...many times I've said to a friend, "Just come with me once ... then you'll see. Then you'll love it." Ed Vistures said, "I read a saying once that if you have to ask, you'll never know. It's a very internal thing." Secretly I sometimes hope that the people I invite don't come...secretly I want the mountain to myself.
Simply hearing the word "mountaineering" or "mountains" sets off an instant flood of emotions somewhere deep inside me. A mental slide and video show starts: vistas, faces of friends from the past, sounds, textures and smells all flood into my conscious. I am calmed, I am content, and I am challenged to head back to the mountains.
Mountaineering also makes me a better person when I'm down here in the real world. The things I've learned in the mountains serve me well in my personal life, as well:
- Stay balanced.
-Use your legs more than your arms.
-Pace yourself...rest on the easier parts, so you have energy to push through the crux.
-Breathe deeply and continually.
-Stay in the present.
That last one is sometimes the most important, both on and off the mountain. Our bodies are always in the here and now ... our mind spends most of its time in the past or future, if we allow it. Letting ones mind drift from the here and now on the mountain can kill you (as I was recently reminded!) Keeping in the present down here in the real world is good for your mental health.
There it is ... my feeble stab at the timeless question of "why we climb." Reading back over this, perhaps it would be better to leave this question unanswered; to avoid trying to make something like mountaineering a thing that can be dealt with in concrete terms. It cannot.
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ninja_climber
Sep 5, 2006, 7:24 AM
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That was beautiful...*sniffle*
I was talking to a non-climber friend(yeah we all have those) about climbing...We tried why we climb. I came the the conclusion that we are group hard-core mofo's that for no absolute reason like to torture our selves while going up seemingly impossible faces,crack,roofs etc etc...In short...We're fucking ninjas!
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ter_bee
Sep 5, 2006, 12:12 PM
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thank you cosmic! someday this question will stop bothering me. i might be 80 and it might be dementia that makes me forget to wonder why, but someday...
i'm so not a ninja.
mowz, i loved your post until i logged in and saw what i hope is your signature. holy boobs, batman! are the girls there always, or do they emphasize the "it makes me feel good!" aspect?
ewtotal wins, i think. i'll check out the link.
terb
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mowz
Sep 6, 2006, 5:28 AM
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Does that mean you stopped loving my post after you saw my sig pics?
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squamishdirtbag
Sep 6, 2006, 6:23 AM
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It doesn't have to be so complicated, just say for FUN!
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kriso9tails
Sep 6, 2006, 8:15 AM
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I climb because right now I have nothing better to do. That's part of why I'm not that good at it.
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b_crux
Sep 6, 2006, 2:08 PM
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Because I can't think of a good reason not to. Plus it makes all the stupid day to day BS in life a little easier to deal with. Climbing helps keep everything in perspective.
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hellbent
Sep 7, 2006, 7:37 AM
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Thanks for that one ter_bee
Yep, it is an age-old question and its been done to death with no concensus in sight. But that was a nice write-up on your take on it.
However I dont agree with your statement that if climbing were religious then atheists wouldnt be doing it. Though there are a million brands of atheists. But I think that most of them resist believeing in a human projection of a supremespiritual being. However that does not ban them from feeling something spiritual....I think....ok, I'm talking through my ass now.....I'm in over my head now. No more smoking in the morning.
anyway....tell me as soon as you find an answer...I'd like to know why I treat myself like a lab-rat. :lol:
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flyinglow
Sep 7, 2006, 12:49 PM
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I climb for the same reasons i engage in most of my other life-consuming hobbies: It's the mind-body aspect.
I've always been attracted to things that use your full concentration of mind and body. When i'm climbing nothing else matters. Everything is narrowed down to a single point of focus, and any lack of attention could mean that you miss something important. It's not something that you do, it's something that you experience with your whole existence.
I think it's that type of concentration and commitment that is missing from most of our daily lives in this plastic and metal world we've created for the sake of safety and "comfort".
Get out and live!
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jrathfon
Sep 7, 2006, 1:10 PM
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Screw atheism, I'm a nialist. I believe in nothing, which is to say that I believe in something that is called "nothing", ah contradiction! ahhhhh.....
(me being cast into the pit of eternal peril)
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jrathfon
Sep 7, 2006, 1:19 PM
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Also, going with the inner monkey philosophy, have you guys seen "pilgrimage" with sharma, gold, and brown? there are monkeys in the video that hop on sharma's projects and fly right past him on super micro-crimps, 6 ft dyno's, and opposable thumb heel hooks! I want one of those monkeys as my own inner monkey.
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yanqui
Sep 7, 2006, 2:08 PM
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I liked your post, ter_bee. I even read the whole thing, which I rarely do on this site. Keep up the search. The truth is out there.
However, there is one thing that differentiates our experiences:
In reply to: i still wonder about the personalities attracted to climbing: why so few have healthy relationships, for example. why friendships among climbers seem sometimes so impersonal and mercenary. and does climbing attract people like this, or make us like this? egg or chicken?
Outside of my family, and a couple of teachers I've known, my most important and lasting relationships were developed through climbing. These relationships have been perhaps the most important apsect of the activity and have helped to keep my interest alive.
There probably are just as many asshole climbers as there are asshole ... (fill in the blank). However, you share a passion, a tradition, experiences, desires, a special knowlege, etc. etc. with climbers that gives you a strange kind of special intimacy that we typically don't share with just any stranger. Like dingus likes to say, this makes us a sort of tribe, standing apart from other tribes. I seriously doubt the members of our tribe, in any real sense of the word, are much better than the members of most other tribes. We are not more magical, more powerful, more sensitive, more intelligent (even though we might like to believe we are). But we do share a special language that makes it easier for us to communicate across that great gulf that seperates all human beings. Take advantage of that special language, use it to build bridges to other climbers, to find out who they are, and the relationships you develop in climbing will be a lasting and meaningful part of of your experience. Maybe even the part that, in the end, matters most.
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treddy
Sep 7, 2006, 2:18 PM
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I've actually been thinking about this a bit recently. I started with why I climb, and ended up a bit off route contemplating what climbing is to me, and here's what I came up with. Its a bit rough around the edges, and probably a bit long, but whatev...
====================
To me, climbing is a passion, a commitment, and above all a way of life.
It starts as an exploration of the physics of the body. Analogous to the martial artists exploring movement through kata, the climber learns to control every aspect of the body to effect movement on the rock. Exploring the connections between hands, feet, hips, and knees, the climber learns the nuances of the body, and pursues a deeper connection with each part of the body. The climber learns to unite the body on a climb in a progression of yin and yang, of tension and release. In its ultimate, every muscle is controlled, every movement calculated, and perfect union with the body is achieved. In some ways, a climb becomes a dance. The body is a complex connection of bones, muscles, ligaments and tendons choreographed into a series of movements that are the climb.
Reaching the limits of strength and endurance, the climber learns to train the body for future performance. It is difficult to travel far along this path without beginning to understand the chemistry of the body. The old adage “you are what you eat” becomes a way of life. The body needs energy to perform and building blocks to grow. The climber learns to recognize and provide the body these needs. At this point, it becomes obvious that the body is a machine, processing food and nutrients into energy and performance, and discarding the waste. The climber learns to streamline the body’s needs, limiting input to that which is needed to perform, and little else.
Learning to understand the physics and chemistry of the body, the climber begins to see the separation between body and mind. Ultimately, it is the mind, contained within the body controlling the body. The body can not go where the mind has not traveled previously and, with a distracted and unfocused mind, the body is unable to perform. Just as the climber trains the body, the climber must also train the mind. Analogous to strength, endurance, and flexibility, the climber’s mind demands commitment, concentration, and understanding. Commitment allows immediate and unhesitant utilization of the body. Concentration allows a continuous flow of yin and yang throughout the body, uniting the body with the climb. Understanding allows the climber to plan the dance required to move through the climb. Lacking these, the climber is paralyzed on the rock, unable to move, unable to balance, and unable to plan.
Ultimately, the climber learns it is the mind that directs the body, and not the other way around. The climber learns to observe states of the body: energy, fatigue, strength, and weakness. The climber learns to perfect the mind in each state, and to disassociate fatigue from panic, and weakness from fear. Doing so, the climber learns the independence of the mind, and its role in directing the movement of the body. Achieving separation of mind and body, the climber learns to recognize and satisfy needs of the mind and the body separately, and can identify the root of each. Climbing is a need of the mind, manifest in a training of the body: the climber uses the mind to connect the body to the rock. Recognizing this, the body is no longer at odds with the rock, but instead depends on the rock to reach the summit. The climb becomes a canvas on which the mind explores the body. With each climb the mind finds novelty in the body.
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notch
Sep 7, 2006, 2:22 PM
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I climb to go where the average person can't go. I've never been too fond of existentialism.
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ter_bee
Sep 9, 2006, 6:26 PM
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very cool that others wonder about this too. notch, i LOVE going places other people can't.
hell. that could be it.
yanqui, just now i counted the number of climbers i knew in healthy relationships and came up with 21 people who are single or in messed up relationships and only 8 who are happily with somebody. (most of the eight had either a life partner who was also a climber or a relationship with somebody willing to be drug to the crag.) that's about one in four.
but i didn't say i thought we/they were assholes. i have some very good partners!
maybe i'm wrong about the mercenary thing. dunno.
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ter_bee
Sep 9, 2006, 6:42 PM
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In reply to: Thanks for that one ter_bee Yep, it is an age-old question and its been done to death with no concensus in sight. But that was a nice write-up on your take on it. However I dont agree with your statement that if climbing were religious then atheists wouldnt be doing it. Though there are a million brands of atheists. But I think that most of them resist believeing in a human projection of a supremespiritual being. However that does not ban them from feeling something spiritual....I think....ok, I'm talking through my ass now.....I'm in over my head now. No more smoking in the morning. anyway....tell me as soon as you find an answer...I'd like to know why I treat myself like a lab-rat. :lol:
thanks hellbent. i did wonder whether the spiritual thing made sense when i wrote that. 'spiritual' is pretty ill-defined, and even if it means something obvious like 'involving the spirit,' athiests could still experience it without knowing. but it does seem weird that they would WANT an experience like that. they/we. shrug.
nah, keep on smoking. keeps you calm, wink.
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reese_7
Sep 9, 2006, 10:36 PM
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This is an awesome thread!
For me, climbing is one of the only times I feel truly present in my thoughts, actions, and breath. Climbing is the act of feeling alive!
Reese
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