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What would you sacrifice?
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kmsmoguls


Sep 8, 2006, 11:48 AM
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What would you sacrifice?
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When building an anchor what would you rather have: maintaining equalization or no extension if a piece fails. For example:

A trango alpine equilizer has the ability to remain equalized even if there is a change in direction of pull. If limiter knots are used it minimizes the amount of extension if a piece failed but it doesn't eliminate extension.

Or

A cordelette prevents any extension but it doesnít maintain equalization of the direction of force changes.

Obviouslly with climbing there are frequently trade offs because no system is perfect. What do you thing is more important. Thanks for your help.

Erik


devils_advocate


Sep 8, 2006, 12:06 PM
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Re: What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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Hold on, let me get a couple of Valium and liter of Vodka. I have to prepare for another 50 pages of the same information not agreed upon in the sliding-x debate.


bill413


Sep 8, 2006, 12:17 PM
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Re: What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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Oo - oo!!! I know this one!!!!!

[*waves hand franticly*]


It depends!
:)


Are the pieces such that equalization (really distribution) is more important? Is the terrain or stance such that I worry more about extension?


Hey Devil - care to share the vodka?


trebork2
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Sep 8, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Re: What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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When a fall occurs at first nothing will be equalized. A fall creates so much force that a cordolette or your equalizer will catch on the carabiner and not move until some of the force is let up.


dingus


Sep 8, 2006, 1:30 PM
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For the *most* part I don't care about either concern.


Bugaboo!

DMT


devils_advocate


Sep 8, 2006, 1:51 PM
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In reply to:
Hey Devil - care to share the vodka?

Sure, but I only have enough Valium to comatose one of us... so you're going to have to find your own.


el_jerko


Sep 8, 2006, 1:54 PM
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I am not sure if this is the right answer, but I tend to fear extension above all else.


Partner alexmac


Sep 8, 2006, 4:21 PM
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Re: What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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I personally go for equalized, and instead of the hard drugs for this thread 20 year old single malt and I am not sharing!!!

When done with the bottle , ROCK!!!! as you whip at the repeat posters heads.

Damn, need another bottle.


jeremy11


Sep 8, 2006, 6:56 PM
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I'm much more concerned with each piece being solid. Other than that,
cordalette, limited sliding x, or equalette (3-4 points clove hitched limited sliding x) depending on the situation and mood...


ecjohnson


Sep 8, 2006, 7:10 PM
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I have some morphine left over from my shoulder surgery.


cintune


Sep 8, 2006, 7:15 PM
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I'm sorry, what was the question again?


dune


Sep 12, 2006, 8:31 AM
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My gut says equalization goes out the window first. But I like the "it depends" answer the best. If you have 2, 3 or 4 absolutely bomber pieces you don't need to worry all that much. Just build your anchor and clip into it. Keep moving and don't waist your time doinkin around. If you've got some questionable pieces try to incorporate as much of both equalization and minimal extension as possible. The reality is you'll never have true equalization except in the most perfect setup. Sliding x is the best thing to remedy that but then you have extension problems (which can be minimized but not removed). I don't use the sliding x if any of my pieces are less than ideal. I used to, but not anymore. I think itís more efficient to just equalize "cordalette style" the best I can. There are always factors that might warrant the sliding x, like if there is the possibility of a pendulum directly on the anchor or if youíre not sure the angle of force but those are exceptional situations. My rule is: If you donít have full confidence in your anchor keep plugging in pieces until you do.


nthusiastj


Sep 12, 2006, 10:28 AM
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Re: What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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Uh, I'd sacrafice this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/...250px-Billy_goat.jpg

Maybe this:

http://www.yellowrivergameranch.com/...ed/davis-rooster.jpg


dune


Sep 13, 2006, 10:36 AM
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I just skim read about 1/4th of the sliding X threadÖ never read it before today. I should have. If you havenít you should too. Iím blown away. It seems like the extension shockload issue is over blown. Extention != shockload. Tests are proving with solid numerical statistics that the shockload effect is a non-issue (always wondered about that but never really knew). And it looks as though when dealing with a less than perfect set of placements that equalization and redundancy without the evils of shock loading can be achieved with sliding anchor configurations. In my mind the issue becomes simplicity of riggingÖ still reading, but the sliding x/equalette is gaining more stock in my mind. Iím still not totally sold on all its aspects, I like simple solutions. The equalette has been around a while but itís been an issue of simplicity for me and no one has published a bonafide solution without wanking on your checkbook or making it overly complex. John Longís new book is supposed to go into detailÖ and Iím ready to read it.

So I would not sacrifice equalization at the risk of increased extension. Howís that for a 180? Does that mean my anchors on multi pitch climbs will change significantly? Probably not, but I donít know yet.


Partner brent_e


Nov 2, 2006, 1:24 PM
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:lol:


krusher4


Nov 2, 2006, 2:13 PM
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Think about this: You can sell one of "your boys" for 12K!! I could dirtbag it for 2 years on that kind of money. Would you be will to make that sacrifice?


dontmaytagme


Nov 14, 2006, 9:24 PM
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Re: [bill413] What would you sacrifice? [In reply to]
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[reply]Oo - oo!!! I know this one!!!!!

[*waves hand franticly*]


[b]It depends![/b]
:)


Are the pieces such that equalization (really distribution) is more important? Is the terrain or stance such that I worry more about extension?


Hey Devil - care to share the vodka?[/reply]

Sweet reply .. Thank goodness this was the third post.


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