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luv_anmls
Sep 29, 2006, 5:52 PM
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Okay, so I stopped in the gym lastnight and was working some boulder problems, and a buddy of mine asked me if I knew anything about local bolt chopoping that had happend this past week at the Black Cliffson on the Popullace Wall. He told me what he knew...and I am furious!
So this post is basically me bitching about some jack ass who watched the Reel Rock Tour that played here in town last week- and got the bright idea from First Accent to start chopping bolts locally. Not only did this individual chop bolts...but whoever it was chopped bolts on a couple routes that are FIVE EIGHT!!!! Now I guess it would be less of a big deal (but still not good) if it was a .12 crack or higher, but this was done on the face climbs of basalt dihedrals! Totally not in the way for placing protection!! This place has been frequently climbed for the last twenty years, and the bolt quality is fine. There are hundreds of routes in this area much of which is bolted. Besides these lines aren't newly bolted, they have been there for quite awhile! So...long story short...I'm pissed that someone did this to such a great warm up route. Its a horrible thing to do to such entry level climbs. Verbal and/or written communiction amongst the trad climbers and sport climbers is the best way to solve problems if someone has an issue. And if for some reason bolts need to be removed and/or replaced, then the FA should be consulted, and the climbers alliance can discuss it, and take action if need be...not have some jack ass scar or permenantly damage the rock in the process of something like this!!
If anyone know's who is responsible, tell them to quit because if the new owners of Carbody find out about this vandalism happening on other rock in the area, we may loose access to Carbody Canyon permanently! Wouldn't that person feel special.
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elvislegs
Sep 29, 2006, 6:08 PM
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heather, which routes were chopped?
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michaelmay513
Sep 29, 2006, 7:31 PM
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Last week my partner and I went up to the short cliffs to climb and noticed a bolted 5.6 to the way right of the wall. He thought it would be a good route to have his dad try climbing. He went up there this past wedneday to discover that the anchors were missing. Are there other routes affected by this moron(s)?
Mike
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michaelmay513
Sep 29, 2006, 7:32 PM
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Last week my partner and I went up to the short cliffs to climb and noticed a bolted 5.6 to the way right of the wall. He thought it would be a good route to have his dad try climbing. He went up there this past wedneday to discover that the anchors were missing. Are there other routes affected by this moron(s)?
Mike
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michaelmay513
Sep 29, 2006, 7:36 PM
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Last week my partner and I went to the short cliffs to climb and we noticed a bolted 5.6 to the way right of the wall. My partner thought it would be a great route to have his dad try out while he was in town. He went up there this past wednesday to discover that the anchors had been removed. Are there any other routes affected by this idiot or group of morons?
Mike
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dfoote07
Sep 29, 2006, 8:38 PM
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That sucks. I can't believe that someone would do that. What a hoser. I hope that people find out who is doing that and stops them. That would suck to loose access to the cliffs. That can't happen. Thanks for the info. I hope that everything get cleared up with that, and the bolts replaced.
Derek
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j_ung
Sep 29, 2006, 8:44 PM
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luv_animals, with all due respect, it sounds as though every bit of your information is second hand at best. Do you have an idea who did this? Have you spoken with that person?
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atpeaceinbozeman
Sep 29, 2006, 9:07 PM
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Second hand info or not, is still seems the routes were chopped, which sucks.
I do agree that 'more better' info would be appreciated though...
Tom
Look on the bright side: at least you were out climbing last night... :wink:
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j_ung
Sep 29, 2006, 9:35 PM
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In reply to: Second hand info or not, is still seems the routes were chopped, which sucks. I do agree that 'more better' info would be appreciated though... Tom Look on the bright side: at least you were out climbing last night... :wink:
Even the info that the routes were chopped is second hand at this point. Has anybody here seen them first hand? Apologies if I misunderstood the OP.
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luv_anmls
Sep 29, 2006, 10:43 PM
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Okay, so here is the deal.
First--I don't know who is chopping...I am trying to find out, or hoping that one of you know, so as to stop this activity before we loose access in Carbody or more areas due to rock damage/vandalism. Kinda scary this is occuring when debate as to wheather we retain access to Carbody is still underway due to the land negotiations in contention with Skyline development.
Next--Yes this is second hand info at best, but all from reliable sources. I have not had the chance to personally go up and see the damages done today since I only learned of this info around 11pm lastnight. The guy that had told me of this occurance had seen it himself.
Also--I have been corresponding with Brian of BCA, and the access fund. He confirmed this information, and has told me that the chopping has been occuring at startling rates within the past week. He has informed me that BCA will be posting bolt chopping signs at the Cliffs in the info kiosks.
--As to what climbs are currently affected...I'm waiting to hear from Brian with a diffinitive answer. Apparently its rumored that the area of Popullace that has Sweet Adean were/are targeted. However...apparently their ethics only go so far because Brian said that they left bolts on White Wash.
-Strange.
Also if the short cliffs are affected also...then I am sure it is not isolated. Keep your eyes open, and post it on here when you find routes with some or all bolts missing. This way we will have a tally running on the damages.
Thanks, and let me know if you have any other questions that I may be able to help with.
-Heather
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luv_anmls
Sep 29, 2006, 10:45 PM
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Okay, so here is the deal.
First--I don't know who is chopping...I am trying to find out, or hoping that one of you know, so as to stop this activity before we loose access in Carbody or more areas due to rock damage/vandalism. Kinda scary this is occuring when debate as to wheather we retain access to Carbody is still underway due to the land negotiations in contention with Skyline development.
Next--Yes this is second hand info at best, but all from reliable sources. I have not had the chance to personally go up and see the damages done today since I only learned of this info around 11pm lastnight. The guy that had told me of this occurance had seen it himself.
Also--I have been corresponding with Brian of BCA, and the access fund. He confirmed this information, and has told me that the chopping has been occuring at startling rates within the past week. He has informed me that BCA will be posting bolt chopping signs at the Cliffs in the info kiosks.
--As to what climbs are currently affected...I'm waiting to hear from Brian with a diffinitive answer. Apparently its rumored that the area of Popullace that has Sweet Adean were/are targeted. However...apparently their ethics only go so far because Brian said that they left bolts on White Wash.
-Strange.
Also if the short cliffs are affected also...then I am sure it is not isolated. Keep your eyes open, and post it on here when you find routes with some or all bolts missing. This way we will have a tally running on the damages.
Thanks, and let me know if you have any other questions that I may be able to help with.
-Heather
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luv_anmls
Sep 29, 2006, 10:46 PM
Post #12 of 35
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Okay, so here is the deal.
First--I don't know who is chopping...I am trying to find out, or hoping that one of you know, so as to stop this activity before we loose access in Carbody or more areas due to rock damage/vandalism. Kinda scary this is occuring when debate as to wheather we retain access to Carbody is still underway due to the land negotiations in contention with Skyline development.
Next--Yes this is second hand info at best, but all from reliable sources. I have not had the chance to personally go up and see the damages done today since I only learned of this info around 11pm lastnight. The guy that had told me of this occurance had seen it himself.
Also--I have been corresponding with Brian of BCA, and the access fund. He confirmed this information, and has told me that the chopping has been occuring at startling rates within the past week. He has informed me that BCA will be posting bolt chopping signs at the Cliffs in the info kiosks.
--As to what climbs are currently affected...I'm waiting to hear from Brian with a diffinitive answer. Apparently its rumored that the area of Popullace that has Sweet Adean were/are targeted. However...apparently their ethics only go so far because Brian said that they left bolts on White Wash.
-Strange.
Also if the short cliffs are affected also...then I am sure it is not isolated. Keep your eyes open, and post it on here when you find routes with some or all bolts missing. This way we will have a tally running on the damages.
Thanks, and let me know if you have any other questions that I may be able to help with.
-Heather
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atpeaceinbozeman
Sep 29, 2006, 10:57 PM
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thanks for the additional info, hope ya'll get this issue cleared up soon.
Tom
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takanhase
Oct 1, 2006, 2:35 AM
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I was there this weekend, I started off at the short clifs and noticed that the anchors for the toddler where GONE! I don't know why a short easy route would be clipped at the anchors? the route could be climbed on gear but.. the bolts where left intact!
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hobo
Oct 2, 2006, 8:24 PM
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Huh I've often wondered why some climbs ever even got bolts ie the virgin, promiscuity crack or even whitewash but not sweet adene. but the thing about the anchors on toddler stumps me you can't even see the anchors from the ground. what is going on? I feel the same about chopping pre-existing sport climbs with no crack pro as I do about bolting crack climbs Its unnecessary. :x
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hobo
Oct 2, 2006, 8:25 PM
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Huh I've often wondered why some climbs ever even got bolts ie the virgin, promiscuity crack or even whitewash but not sweet adene. but the thing about the anchors on toddler stumps me you can't even see the anchors from the ground. what is going on? I feel the same about chopping pre-existing sport climbs with no crack pro as I do about bolting crack climbs Its unnecessary. :x
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hobo
Oct 2, 2006, 8:31 PM
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Huh I've often wondered why some climbs ever even got bolts ie the virgin, promiscuity crack or even whitewash but not sweet adene. but the thing about the anchors on toddler stumps me you can't even see the anchors from the ground. what is going on? I feel the same about chopping pre-existing sport climbs with no crack pro as I do about bolting crack climbs Its unnecessary. Most of the climbs at the black cliffs can be led on trad gear if you don't mind being a little bold. but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any bolts there are penty of testpiece hard trad lines as well as easy trad lines out there.
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gmreeves
Oct 2, 2006, 8:36 PM
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Maybe the landowner decided he didn't want the bolts on his property because the bolts were in fact the vandelism. Maybe he has been having people remove the ugly bolts from his pretty cliffs.
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j_ung
Oct 2, 2006, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: Okay, so here is the deal. First--I don't know who is chopping...I am trying to find out, or hoping that one of you know, so as to stop this activity before we loose access in Carbody or more areas due to rock damage/vandalism. Kinda scary this is occuring when debate as to wheather we retain access to Carbody is still underway due to the land negotiations in contention with Skyline development. Next--Yes this is second hand info at best, but all from reliable sources. I have not had the chance to personally go up and see the damages done today since I only learned of this info around 11pm lastnight. The guy that had told me of this occurance had seen it himself. Also--I have been corresponding with Brian of BCA, and the access fund. He confirmed this information, and has told me that the chopping has been occuring at startling rates within the past week. He has informed me that BCA will be posting bolt chopping signs at the Cliffs in the info kiosks. --As to what climbs are currently affected...I'm waiting to hear from Brian with a diffinitive answer. Apparently its rumored that the area of Popullace that has Sweet Adean were/are targeted. However...apparently their ethics only go so far because Brian said that they left bolts on White Wash. -Strange. Also if the short cliffs are affected also...then I am sure it is not isolated. Keep your eyes open, and post it on here when you find routes with some or all bolts missing. This way we will have a tally running on the damages. Thanks, and let me know if you have any other questions that I may be able to help with. -Heather
Ah, I see. My bad. I thought from this statement:
In reply to: So this post is basically me bitching about some jack ass who watched the Reel Rock Tour that played here in town last week- and got the bright idea from First Accent to start chopping bolts locally.
...that you had an idea who did it. Well, best of luck. I know first hand how frustrating it can be to deal with this kind thing. People who chop and don't own up to it are cowards, plainly and simply.
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elvislegs
Oct 2, 2006, 9:15 PM
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something really doesn't add up about this. this doesn't seem like the work of some offended trad hardman / woman. as has already been said, there are a number of other routes which might have made sense to chop, and been easier to do as well.
no, this is so random that it almost has to be a non-climber. someone who only knows that this will piss off climbers.
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ahwoo
Oct 2, 2006, 11:06 PM
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In reply to: something really doesn't add up about this. this doesn't seem like the work of some offended trad hardman / woman. as has already been said, there are a number of other routes which might have made sense to chop, and been easier to do as well. no, this is so random that it almost has to be a non-climber. someone who only knows that this will piss off climbers.
i'm not sure how the access is around there (setting up TRs and rap lines), but don't you think this person have to be a climber to gain access to the bolts/anchors?
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elvislegs
Oct 3, 2006, 9:39 PM
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perhaps, but not necessarily. they'd at least have to know how to rappel.
just seems very strange that they would chop THOSE particular routes if they were climbers. believe me, there are some pretty egregious examples of bolted cracks out there, some really dumb retro-bolt hack jobs. those haven't been touched.
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luv_anmls
Oct 4, 2006, 4:51 AM
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In reply to: perhaps, but not necessarily. they'd at least have to know how to rappel. just seems very strange that they would chop THOSE particular routes if they were climbers. believe me, there are some pretty egregious examples of bolted cracks out there, some really dumb retro-bolt hack jobs. those haven't been touched.
hahaha I second that!!
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boltdude
Oct 4, 2006, 6:19 AM
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Don't forget a prime reason for bolt "chopping" has nothing to do with ethics or trad vs. sport - often it's simply stealing bolt hangers. Sometimes even by non-climbers.
I've climbed at the Black Cliffs, and they're FUN! But there are some blatantly bolted cracks. If it's ethically driven, I'd expect to see some protection bolts near cracks chopped.
If it's just a few anchors, and there seems to be no correlation to bolted cracks, you can be pretty sure it's hanger theft - climber or not (for those who haven't been there, it's easy to walk to the top and many anchors can be accessed without any climbing gear).
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atpeaceinbozeman
Oct 10, 2006, 5:07 PM
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any updates on this?
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