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notapplicable
Oct 10, 2006, 3:58 AM
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This is not a question of whether you should, or should not climb on pre-hung draws. Assuming that the person who bolted the climb didn't see a need to hang fixed draws should draws that are pre-hung for someones lead attempt be taken with them at the end of the day or should they leave them up until they send?
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mingleefu
Oct 10, 2006, 4:15 AM
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I'm not voting because there isn't an option: "It Depends (tm)".
You shouldn't have to remove them, but that cruel fact of life is that if you don't take them down- someone might steal them. And if they do steal them after you've left your crap laying around... don't be surprised. You should have taken better care of your junk.
Can't say if there is a "should" about this, but I definately would.
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overlord
Oct 10, 2006, 6:30 AM
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i usually clean them, but thats mostly because i rarely 'project' for more than 5 tries. i really dont like hanging on one route for the whole day (or for more days) so i just clean my stuff and move on.
but if i were to project a difficult-to-clean route intensively and i knew id be on it avery other day or so, id leave them up.
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chossmonkey
Oct 10, 2006, 2:06 PM
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That really isn't a yes or no question you are asking.
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csproul
Oct 10, 2006, 2:21 PM
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Since most draws are left up on climbs that are beyond the average climber's ability, I think this is rarely an issue. I wouldn't leave my draws up on a climb, especially since there are lots of people out there who could climb my projects and take them. I also wouldn't think of stealing the draws left up on someone else's project (even if I could). I may take them down if they were on a climb easy enough that I thought they were unintentionally left and then try to return them to their owner.
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j_ung
Oct 10, 2006, 2:56 PM
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This really should be decided on an area-by-area basis.
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markc
Oct 10, 2006, 4:18 PM
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As others have said, there are a number of factors I'd consider before making that decision. How difficult is it to hang or clean draws on this route? How long will it be between your attempts? It's one thing to leave draws on a hard, severely overhanging route for a few days, and another to leave them on a moderate route right next to the access climb for two weeks. Is the route popular/easy enough that your draws are going to be getting in the way? Not everyone will want to clip your draws. How do land owners/managers feel about fixed or project draws in your area? Last, are you willing to risk losing your draws?
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rockguide
Oct 10, 2006, 5:27 PM
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In reply to: I'm not voting because there isn't an option: "It Depends (tm)". You shouldn't have to remove them, but that cruel fact of life is that if you don't take them down- someone might steal them. And if they do steal them after you've left your crap laying around... don't be surprised. You should have taken better care of your junk. Can't say if there is a "should" about this, but I definately would.
Same.
Another poorly constructed poll.
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caughtinside
Oct 10, 2006, 5:36 PM
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I'd just like to point out that if you remove someone else's project draws you are a thief and an asshole.
Don't steal from other climbers, mmkay?
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chossmonkey
Oct 10, 2006, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: I'd just like to point out that if you remove someone else's project draws you are a thief and an asshole.
Unless there is a law against gear being left up overnight, this is the one thing about fixed draws that is universal.
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markc
Oct 10, 2006, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'd just like to point out that if you remove someone else's project draws you are a thief and an asshole. :righton: Unless there is a law against gear being left up overnight, this is the one thing about fixed draws that is universal.
Agreed. There is a huge difference between booty and draws left on a project. One is knowingly abandoned, and the other is property that someone intended on collecting.
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feanor007
Oct 10, 2006, 7:25 PM
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i've noticed in the gorge that draws are almost exclusivly left on red tagged routes or overhanging, .12+ routes. In fact i can't ever remember seening project draws on an anything lower than .12a. not to say i climb .12's, i'm currently working a 100 foot, 10 bolt, 11c pumpfest and it sucks to hang the draws each time but i just see that as part of the deal, the local ethic, something that makes me better.
the only time i would ever remove draws other than my own would be if i was personally asked by the owner to pull and return them or if they looked incredibly unsafe, which has never happend to me, but i've seen some draws Matt Tackett pulled and hung in the bathroom at RRO, i think they were from the lode and they looked terrible.
So would i take or leave my draws, depends on the route but mostly the local ethic
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jt512
Oct 10, 2006, 8:06 PM
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In reply to: i've noticed in the gorge that draws are almost exclusivly left on red tagged routes or overhanging, .12+ routes. In fact i can't ever remember seening project draws on an anything lower than .12a. not to say i climb .12's, i'm currently working a 100 foot, 10 bolt, 11c pumpfest and it sucks to hang the draws each time but i just see that as part of the deal, the local ethic, something that makes me better.
I doubt that there is any local ethic dictating that draws have to be taken down from 11c routes. The question more likely is whether some gumby will steal your draws, or not. Most people who climb 5.12 know to leave project draws alone. Many people who climb 5.11 don't.
Jay
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feanor007
Oct 10, 2006, 8:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: i've noticed in the gorge that draws are almost exclusivly left on red tagged routes or overhanging, .12+ routes. In fact i can't ever remember seening project draws on an anything lower than .12a. not to say i climb .12's, i'm currently working a 100 foot, 10 bolt, 11c pumpfest and it sucks to hang the draws each time but i just see that as part of the deal, the local ethic, something that makes me better. I doubt that there is any local ethic dictating that draws have to be taken down from 11c routes. The question more likely is whether some gumby will steal your draws, or not. Most people who climb 5.12 know to leave project draws alone. Many people who climb 5.11 don't.
Jay
exactly, i just see .12 as the reasonable threshold for leaving my draws. i say 'local ethic' because i have never seen unattended 'perment' draws on an .11 in the gorge. i assume there is some reason for this so i've decided not to leave my gear on .11s any more than overnight. I know most of the draws are left in the gorge not because of how hard they are to hang, but b/c of the pain of cleaning severely overhanging routes.
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notapplicable
Oct 10, 2006, 8:52 PM
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It is intended to be a broad reaching question not designed to address any specific instance, region or venue. I was asking you opinion about whether you feel it is appropriate ( you personally not your local ethic ) to leave your draws on the wall. If you feel the question is to vague or cant be properly answered with a simple yes or no don't vote, no big deal.
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jt512
Oct 10, 2006, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: It is intended to be a broad reaching question not designed to address any specific instance, region or venue. I was asking you opinion about whether you feel it is appropriate ( you personally not your local ethic ) to leave your draws on the wall. If you feel the question is to vague or cant be properly answered with a simple yes or no don't vote, no big deal.
The wording of the question is biased. You are leading respondents to answer "no."
Jay
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notapplicable
Oct 11, 2006, 3:11 AM
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In reply to: Should you take your project draws with you at the end of the day?
How is that biased? If someones opinion on the matter is so flimsy as to be influenced by the phrasing of the ? then I'm not sure I want them voting. I guess I could have said " do you personally take you project draws with you at the end of the day?" because what I was hoping to learn is if climbers feel it is appropriate to leave draws up for more that a day.
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boardline22
Oct 11, 2006, 3:29 AM
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just take your draws home at the end of the day. What if someone wants to climb the route with there draws? Would you leave cams in a crack or tricams in a pocket?
This is just what I think. You guys may think I am way off though.
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styndall
Oct 11, 2006, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: just take your draws home at the end of the day. What if someone wants to climb the route with there draws? Would you leave cams in a crack or tricams in a pocket? This is just what I think. You guys may think I am way off though.
You're way off.
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jt512
Oct 11, 2006, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: just take your draws home at the end of the day. What if someone wants to climb the route with there draws? Would you leave cams in a crack or tricams in a pocket? This is just what I think. You guys may think I am way off though.
Way off.
Jay
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jt512
Oct 11, 2006, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Should you take your project draws with you at the end of the day? How is that biased?
It isn't, but this is:
In reply to: Assuming that the person who bolted the climb didn't see a need to hang fixed draws should draws that are pre-hung for someones lead attempt be taken with them at the end of the day or should they leave them up until they send?
Jay
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krusher4
Oct 11, 2006, 6:35 PM
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In reply to: I'd just like to point out that if you remove someone else's project draws you are a thief and an asshole. Don't steal from other climbers, mmkay?
If you sang the F.A. can you take the draws?? Nah, just kidding. If you take something that is not your and is an important item to another your an a**.
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cjsimpso
Oct 12, 2006, 6:13 PM
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Should you leave your project draws at home at the beginning of the day?
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diophantus
Oct 12, 2006, 6:34 PM
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Last time I was at Smith someone left his/her projects draws on to bolt or not to be. Didn't bother me at all. His/Her gear was even stashed at the base of the climb, I borrowed his/her stick clip since mine broke.
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rockguide
Oct 12, 2006, 6:52 PM
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In reply to: Should you leave your project draws at home at the beginning of the day?
Some people shouldn't leave their home at the beginning of the day, draws or no draws. :lol:
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