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Mixing and Matching Cams
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builttospill


Oct 12, 2006, 4:35 AM
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Mixing and Matching Cams
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I've mentioned it elsewhere but I'm selling off my small rack of older cams (some bought used, some bought from a friend not used, etc). They are mostly mismatched and I'm tired of having people look at my Forged Friends and say "you climb on those?" Also, it's a ridiculously inefficient rack.....lots of overlap in some sizes and barely any in others (IF any).

THe point is, I'm going to be buying a new set of cams to replace what I had. Since I'm mostly interested in longer routes and alpine stuff, weight is a concern, as is cost. I've determined what the lightest possible rack is, while still covering all sizes from 10mm (well, that's the manufacturer specs, not sure how realistic or accurate that is in real world application) to 114ish millimeters. This configuration would result in the 5 smallest cams being from one company, the two middle (30-50 mm) being a different company/model and the last three (the big mothers, from 50 mm to 114) being another company and model.

What are people's opinions of mismatched cams? I mean, I assume I'd get used to it, since that's what I do now, but are there obvious advantages to having all similar cams that I am missing? They're all single-stem designs except the middle two. The weight savings over the next viable option (5 in one company, larger 5 in another) is 58 grams, and the cost is the same. Does it matter? Is 58 grams worth it? Maybe not. It's only 2 ounces. But do differing cam types matter?


clarki


Oct 12, 2006, 5:08 AM
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Longer routes? Alpine? I'd keep the forged friends--lighter than C4s and will outlast just about anything out there! Get some hexes as well,, they are even lighter yet and don't hurt so much to leave behind on a rap............

new gear is overrated!!!!!!

John


tradmanclimbs


Oct 12, 2006, 5:24 AM
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Mixed rack should be no problem. I hate wimps who can't lead on a strangers rack :roll: get used to all the diferent brands and you will be all set....


Partner heiko


Oct 12, 2006, 5:46 AM
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I was concerned about the weight thing, too, when I built my rack during the last year. Most of my partners go for BD up to the largest sizes... but to me, beyond the BD #2, their extended range doesn't make such a big difference anymore, but their weight does. So I went for DMM because they're just so much lighter. Beyond the DMM #4 I'm currently looking at RockEmpire Pulsars #6 and #7. But honestly, in the mid-range, I totally wouldn't want to do without my BDs. For the small sizes, I have Aliens.

However, on the last few alpine routes I've done (limestone that is), I didn't bring small or medium cams anymore at all. Nuts, the smallest three tricams (doubles), and the three largest DMM cams, that was all. Works well, is superlight, and I had no problems. But that's probably heavily dependant on where you climb.

Hope this helps,
Heiko


dynamo_


Oct 12, 2006, 5:55 AM
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My cam rack goes as follows:

Metolius UL TCUs 00-2 (need to add the size 3 to get well into the 0.5 C4)
Black Diamond C4s 0.5-2
Wild Country Forged Friends 3.5 & 4

Yeah, it's mixed, but it was the best compromise of weight and functionality for me. I too feel that the expansion range of C4s over size 2 doesn't offset the higher weight over other cams. Further, size 3+ cracks in Forged Friends are generally, deep enough to sink the stem into...not always the case, but moreoften than not here in the SE.


bill413


Oct 12, 2006, 6:37 AM
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Mismatched cams? Way to go. One benefit is it's easier to distinguish what size (or size range) you're grabbing - if you know the friends are all larger than the metolius', it makes it easy. It's when they overlap that I find it more of a pain.

2 ounces? Probably not significant....but if it helps your head, go for it.

Now, if we were talking about 85grams....


Partner j_ung


Oct 12, 2006, 7:35 AM
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My rack looks like a garage sale and I love it. Do what you need to do.


Partner tattooed_climber


Oct 12, 2006, 8:47 AM
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keep the forged friends dude.....extra gear never hurts...for those bomber splitter routes, and its not like you can sell used forged friends for alot or anything


my rack (cams) is mixed, old bd, c4 bd, metolius, dmm, aliens

dmm are super light and cheap...


Partner hosh


Oct 12, 2006, 8:57 AM
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I've got aliens up to the orange, a few zeros, BD's as follows: .3, .4, .75, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5, A #6 Tech Friend, forged friends from 2.5-4, metolius power cams from 7-10, plus passive gear and tri-cams. It's WAY more gear than I've ever needed, even for longer multi-pitch stuff. I always end up leaving stuff at home and even what I bring doesn't always get used.

Mixing brands is the way to go. I'm pretty big on it, I think it's better to have a few different kinds of cams on your rack simply because different brands have different strengths and weaknesses.

hosh.


paganmonkeyboy


Oct 12, 2006, 9:04 AM
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mix n match em - more versitile, more fun to play with, looks cool when talking to chicks (and its all about the chicks, man...)


diophantus


Oct 12, 2006, 10:51 AM
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My rack is a collection of all sorts of crap, I don't mind and I actually kind of prefer it. Some times one brand of gear seems to work better than others for certain placements. My favorite pieces are my old Chouinard stoppers you can't get anymore, they are the best. I don't think 2 ounces is enough to matter when alpine climbing.


cgranite


Oct 12, 2006, 9:02 PM
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With light gear in mind, I bought Metolius Cams.
They are all super light and very resistant to freezing.

I mixed Friends, Camalots, and Metolius FCU's/TCU's.
For long routes or routes with epic approaches, I would take what I called my light rack, which was a few friends and a complete set of Metolius cams.

-Look up the gear specs for Black Diamond, Wild Country, and Metolius.
Then Compare the wieght, color, and strength. Building is up to you from there.

I'm currently Selling 3 Metolius Power Cams if you or anyone is interested.
Just PM me.

-Red #4 Metolius Power Cam -has a tiny dimple on a lobe...only cosmetic
-Black #5 Metolius Power Cam
-Green # 6 Metolius Power Cam.
Reason: I have too many cams...Need shoes...no money


builttospill


Oct 12, 2006, 10:58 PM
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Looks like the rack I'll go with then is Trango flex cams from 0.5 to 4, then metolius 5 and 6 and friends 3 and 4 (and probably 3.5 also).

The Trangos are already purchased (or I might have considered aliens), but we'll have to wait on the others until I can sell some old gear.


jaybro


Oct 14, 2006, 2:47 PM
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Your choice will work if you believe it can. The real trick is the climbing.


bkalaska


Oct 14, 2006, 6:05 PM
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I'm selling a #5 Met cam


Partner ctardi


Oct 15, 2006, 1:39 PM
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I always mix and match, get things covered better that way...

Off the top of my head:
Metolious TCU - 00-4
Metolious Power cam - 5
WC Tech Friends - 1-3, 4
BD Camalots (new) - 1 and 2
DMM FCU - 3.5

Maybe a couple others?


wallrat63


Nov 9, 2006, 8:09 AM
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my rack is as follows:

full set of tech friends minus #6
full set of rocks plus doubles up to and including 6
full set of rockcentrics
given that i climb at the Gunks alot doubles of pink & red tricams plus blue, brown, orange and silver

it all comes down to just going out and climbing i can climb effectivly on mine or anyone elses rack. as long as there is a working knowlege of how the the gear fundamentally works it isnt hard to get used to new gear. besides using a "new" mixed rack adds a whole new degree of challenge even on routes that you have previously done.


brutusofwyde


Nov 15, 2006, 3:47 PM
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Short answer: Two ounces will make virtually no difference in rack weight, pack weight or what you are able to climb.

HOWEVER, if you select your rack, rope, harness, carabiners, slings, helmet, pack, and accessories with the minimum weight in mind, the weight savings can be substantial.

My lightweight rack consists of DMM Quads and Stregor Titanium cams down to #2, .5 and .75 Camalots, and Aliens in the smaller sizes.

Depending on the route, I often leave the larger cams behind, adding #5 and #6 Tricams.

ymmv, read the disclaimer, and don't fall, it's a big deal, you could die.

Brutus


stymingersfink


Nov 15, 2006, 3:58 PM
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In reply to:
Now, if we were talking about 85grams....

I'd rather not talk about that, it brings up some tuff issues. Mad


Anyone know a good, wait, make that a great lawyer who practices in California?


(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Nov 15, 2006, 4:01 PM)


redlegrangerone


Nov 15, 2006, 4:25 PM
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I followed a Gunks climber visiting out here in Arizona for a day. I have NEVER had to clean so many damn tricams in my life. The dude placed 5 of the damn things on one pitch.


wallrat63


Nov 15, 2006, 4:52 PM
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once you start leading in the Gunks you will realize how key the pink and red tricams actually are.


redlegrangerone


Nov 15, 2006, 4:57 PM
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That is true, but out here they are not as common. We do not have as many of those horizontal placements. But I have to admit there are times when they are just about the only things that will work.


dynamo_


Nov 15, 2006, 6:48 PM
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In reply to:
...But I have to admit there are times when they are just about the only things that will work.

Bow to the power of the pink tricam!


c4c


Nov 15, 2006, 6:52 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
...But I have to admit there are times when they are just about the only things that will work.

Bow to the power of the pink tricam!
Be careful if PTC comes out of community he will get a big head!Pirate


drfelatio


Nov 15, 2006, 7:46 PM
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I'm just now starting to lead trad and my buddies have always suggested that I mix up my rack. Well, one, they want to be able to borrow my gear Laugh and, two, different brands cover slightly different ranges. I guess with a mixed rack you have more overlap and less of a gap from one cam to the next. I currently have:

Forged Friends: 1.5, 1.75, 2, 2.5 (2), 3, and 4
Metolius TCU: 1-4
Metolius FCU: 6-8
Full set of stoppers

I would like to get (and if those with more experience could critique me here):

Forged Friend: 3.5
Metolius TCU: 0 (2), 1-4
Metolius FCU: 5
Some larger cams like BD 4 (?), 5-6
Another set of stoppers 4-13
Some of the larger hexes

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