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dalfollo
Oct 31, 2006, 9:31 PM
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What are you suggestions for a haul line...right now i have a perfectly good Bluewater static 11mm...but think that I might trade that for something smaller/lighter.
What about 7mm/8mm/9mm...
any suggestions appreciated...
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moof
Oct 31, 2006, 11:52 PM
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I got mine off of sierra trading post for about $95. It is a 9.5mm 60m new england ropes. They presently have them for 114, which isn't bad, but not as appealing. Confidence inspiring diameter without being a pig.
Avoid 7mm, you'll never want to rap on it or jug on it.
Old retired lead lines work great but are heavy and a bit stretchy. Very handy if you trash the main lead line though.
Edelweis has a static line that has enough stretch to handle a factor 1 fall. Might be nice if your bag cuts loose and your anchor doesn't like the big funk. Never used one though.
If you have any plans for soloing then be careful going too skinny. I solo with a gri-gri, and the 9.5mm static is already a little sporty on rappel. 8mm lines might be just too skinny to be practical with the gri-gri. Carrying an extra piece of gear is just a hassle.
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holdplease2
Nov 1, 2006, 12:04 AM
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Hi:
I like my sterling 9mm static. I wouldn't want anything thinner for rapping when solo.
I see little benefit to carrying a static haul line in most cases, but I can think of some risks.
If you have only one dynamic line (lead line) and it gets a core shot while you are climbing with a partner, thats no fun. You can't isolate the core and still lead with the rope pulling through gear, you have to start soloing, where the rope is stationary relative to the gear. If your haul line is a nice dynamic, you can switch to it and haul with the core shot rope.
It is not unheard of to drop pigs, and certainly not unheard of to *almost* drop pigs. In the unlikely event that you managed to do this to yourself, you'll improve your chances greatly if your pigs were on a dynamic line.
I've done both dynamic and static hauls with big loads, and my next haul line will not be static, its going to be about a 10.5 dynamic line.
Hope this helps,
-Kate.
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iamthewallress
Nov 1, 2006, 12:29 AM
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I enjoyed having a static haul line for a few reasons.
* I worried less about bouncing causing it to cut (althought the effects of this once it's good and stretched are probably not so much).
* It was lighter and cheaper than the same size dynamic. (9.0 in this case.)
* Since I was ordering it off the spool, I could get a 250 footer which is nice for combining hauls and having enough rope to do long lower outs w/o a spare line.
Alas, I no longer have my static, and on my only two hauling excursions since I lost my static, I've used one of my fairly new lead lines as that was what I had. Appreciating the points raised above about having a back up line, I was psyched to try this new way.
I got a core shot in the dynamic I was hauling w/ which bummed me out b/c it was spendy and new. I wished I'd had an old dynamic to haul on instead.
Core shot aside, I am also concerned about what extended periods of hauling does to a dynamic. The ropes are tested for strong but quick forces. How bad does continuous weighting of a rope compromise its elasticity and/or strength?
Even a stiff old dynamic is probably a better bet as a lead line than a static though.
Edit: I haul on a 'retired' 8.1 mm (sort of formerly) dynamic rope on one day climbs where just a small bag is getting the speedy leg haul. In these situations, a core shot in the lead line (which mercifully has never happened) would mean 'start bailing' anyway.
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euroford
Nov 1, 2006, 2:48 PM
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i have a bluewater 10.3 'big wall haul line', and i reallly quite very much like it allot.
its not a full static line, but a low stretch semi static, thus it hauls and jugs like a static, but will offer a bit of a safety margin if you dropped the pigs. its also fat enough to be confidence inspiring for the raps and jugs. works well with a grigri.
i have a couple of bluewater static 2's that i use at work, these things are much heavier, much stiffer and do not handle well.
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stymingersfink
Nov 2, 2006, 5:09 AM
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MAMMUT 11mm cut from the spool at 235'. I body haul most loads (w/ dynamic b/u), so I need to feel good hanging off the damn thing 30' below the anchor and this rope does it for me. I have no worries about abrasion wearing the rope prematurely, it's long enough to link pitches and still have a lower-out tail, and it's heavy. It's a little thick to feed through the grigri when I use it for a rap-rope, but when rapping with a pig that's a good thing.
OTOH, did I mention it's heavy?
When 'walling with a party of three, we would send a second up the haul line while the third cleaned. To make it an efficient time saver this meant riding the bags on the lower-out on several occasions, which is when I appreciated the 11mm line the most. (Care must be exercised to jug smoothly, otherwise one experiences a rather un-settling bouncing action.)
BTW, its heavy.
Since this rope has been claimed by the L&F, I have purchased a 265' 8mm static line to replace it. It's skinny and light, weighing almost half as much as the 11mil (AFAIR), but I have not put it into service yet so I have no opinion on it yet. I anticipate a higher level of reluctance to body-hauling but I guess that will depend on the circumstances.
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rjones
Nov 2, 2006, 1:47 PM
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I just purchased a 200' 11.4mm Samson static line to use as a haul line. The thing is heavy, thick, and semi stiff. Works great when you are hauling and you have to get outa dodge, 100' in one shot. I have a 200' 9mm Bluewater static that I use as a speed line for quick hits or just a backup rap line, 165'+ to the ground. I don't use a gri gri so the size isn't a problem. The 9mm seems a tad on the small size if you are hauling a big load or jugging a full pitch, you will think twice about everything when you swing out there over the void. LOL !!!
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iamthewallress
Nov 2, 2006, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: I think fat static lines are a waste of money.
I think they're grand if you're going to fix something and go away for a while. I prefer the peace of mind that fatness gives when it's my being, not my pig, that is riding on them.
Otherwise, I don't like them either...b/c I'm not strong enough to lift an 11mm. Because I'm not strong enough to tie a knot in one or ram one through a belay device.
I like having the option of fixing 2 pitches, and I wouldn't be comfortable to do that w/ an 8mm.
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grayhghost
Nov 2, 2006, 7:26 PM
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We used a 9mm 100m Sterling on our last wall. 100m allows you to climb two or three pitches and then haul. This means fewer lower-outs and fewer time-consuming pig-docks. You also get to choose which anchor to haul off if you uncomfortable hauling two large bags and a double ledge off a #2 bashie and a tipped-out red camalot.
We talked to some guys who climbed The Trip using a 200m haul line. They hauled four times.
Hauling on a dynamic line just plain sucks.
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iamthewallress
Nov 2, 2006, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: We talked to some guys who climbed The Trip using a 200m haul line. They hauled four times. Hauling on a dynamic line just plain sucks.
That sounds like a good idea as long as you're positive there's nothing for the bag to catch on and if you don't mind having 30 lbs of rope on your ass. It also seems like in a high wind your bag could really travel at the end of a 200m line. Personally I wouldn't want that much seperation between me and my bag. There's something nice about having snacks and warm coats to keep me company when I belay.
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tomtom
Nov 6, 2006, 8:22 PM
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I currently use a 10.3mm Yates Speed Wall (dynamic) for moderate loads and a 8.0mm Beal Trailline for light loads. I own a 7/16" PMI static, but I'm too lazy to carry it anywhere. I haven't noticed a real problem with hauling on a dynamic. Rapping on a single strand of 8mm is sporty, however.
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desertdude420
Nov 7, 2006, 5:15 PM
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Speaking of static vs. dynamic... Has anyone ever heard of a dropped pig shock loading a belay and ripping a party off a wall? This is one of my biggest fears when wall climbing. I would continue using my dynamic 10.2mm or using screamers for the haul anchor point. Even if it does 'bounce' a bit when jugging. Shock loading sketchy anchors is... well... sketchy!
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stymingersfink
Nov 8, 2006, 2:24 AM
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If the pig ripping the anchors is a real concern for you, might I suggest backing up your haul to the most bomber looking bolt with a screamer attached?
You'll find stories on this site of pigs that fly, but i've not yet heard of parties taking the express elevator down due to haul-anchor failure. Of course this means very little, as I haven't heard everything, and seen even less.
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pmyche
Nov 8, 2006, 3:55 PM
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desertdude, it did happen. Don't know if it was a static line or not.
I had a load cut halfway through a static line on a lower-out where my let-out line was only 30-40' and I had to let it swing. The line got hung up on a rivet then cut loose, for 5-6' "fall." Had to beat the Wall Hauler open with a hammer. I don't know how the line didn't completely sever.
Seems like there's always an unexpected, unheard-of event that shakes people into prudence.
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areuinclimber
Nov 16, 2006, 1:07 AM
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im a huge fan of dynamic lines for hauling becuase as kate said, its a back up if your lead line gets a core shot. another advantage i like is that when soloing, if the bags get stuck i will keep hauling until the line is super tight and then rap and free the pig. this way the rope retracts a bit (enough to clear whatever hung it up) and the pig is clear of the hang up.
i use a 10mm dynamic line, cheapest i can find.
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holdplease2
Nov 16, 2006, 6:43 AM
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I now can count two friends of mine who lost control of their pigs at the belay and sent them for the ride to the end of the line.
In one case, the pigs went for the full ride, belay station to the end of the line resulting in a natural anchor shifting severely when shock loaded.
In the second case, the guy got lucky when he was slammed into his belay station during the loss of control of the pigs and a cam on the hauling system engaged from that shock mid fall, stripping the sheath from about 16 feet of the haul line.
Anyway, it happens. I know that the second guy was using a static line, not sure about the party in the first example.
-Kate.
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patto
Nov 16, 2006, 7:01 AM
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If you drop a pig a full rope length. Then a screamer wont do much.
If your haul line is a strong static then i would be seriously concerned about it destroying the whole anchor. In fact I can't see how a heavy pig on a static wouldn't destroy the anchor.
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