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jumpingrock
Nov 20, 2006, 1:24 AM
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I pulled a link cam from a "ok" placement this weekend and I have heard a story of somebody else who pulled one from a "good" placement. The "good" placement was fallen on (short) and pulled. (This is hearsay).
The "ok" placement was something that I placed while aiding. To be perfectly honest, I am not %100 sure that the placement was even ok. It looked ok but I don't remember for sure. It failed under body weight. It was the placement, not the rock, nor the cam itself that failed.
So I'm just wondering if there is anybody out there who has actually taken a whipper on a link cam and had it hold for them? I'm a little leary right now. Next time I am out with it, I intend to place it and bounce on it from the ground.
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jbmoz
Nov 20, 2006, 1:53 AM
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I recently got a set and was wondering the same thing myself.
This last week me and a buddy had a go with them and found their versatility amazing! It got to the point that we were living the ground with 2 sets of wires, couple aliens and just these puppies on 25m pitches. They went in every time.
Towards the end of the day I was encouraging my buddy to whip on one but he only agreed to have a sit. The placement was on the red one and retracted to the inner lobes. The crack was pretty much parallel, so the placement good. My buddy weighs about 90 kg and it held fine.
I'm going to back one up next time and have a jump to see how it goes. Will post accordingly.
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holdplease2
Nov 20, 2006, 2:16 AM
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I've not fallen on a Link cam, but I've been using them on aid placements for some time, probably 50+ placements, many were bounce tested, all held bodyweight. I've also used them in a few weighted anchors when free climbing.
Not a fall, but the next best thing, I guess.
FWIW,
-Kate.
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caughtinside
Nov 20, 2006, 7:39 PM
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jumpingrock,
I'd be interested to hear more about this ok placement, and how the failure occured.
Can you describe the placement?
Can you describe the failure? did it fail as soon as you weighted it, or were you able to stand on it for a moment? Did it slide out, or was it a sudden pop?
What lobe of the link was engaged? the biggest, the middle, or the smallest? Could you see if contact with the rock was on a joint between lobe sections?
Flaring?
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chanceboarder
Nov 20, 2006, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: jumpingrock, I'd be interested to hear more about this ok placement, and how the failure occured. Can you describe the placement? Can you describe the failure? did it fail as soon as you weighted it, or were you able to stand on it for a moment? Did it slide out, or was it a sudden pop? What lobe of the link was engaged? the biggest, the middle, or the smallest? Could you see if contact with the rock was on a joint between lobe sections? Flaring?
Jason
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johnclimbrok
Nov 20, 2006, 7:51 PM
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They hold.
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caughtinside
Nov 20, 2006, 7:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: jumpingrock, I'd be interested to hear more about this ok placement, and how the failure occured. Can you describe the placement? Can you describe the failure? did it fail as soon as you weighted it, or were you able to stand on it for a moment? Did it slide out, or was it a sudden pop? What lobe of the link was engaged? the biggest, the middle, or the smallest? Could you see if contact with the rock was on a joint between lobe sections? Flaring? Yeah I'd be very interested to hear this info as well. I've been very curious about these cams. I like the range and can see it's usefulness but I've always wondered whether or not this cam just has too many moving parts and too much going on with it to be as good as the well tested traditional designs. Jason
I was suspicious as well.
But then I got a chance to use them.
Let me tell you dude, they are totally awesome. Great cams!!!
That is, assuming they work. 
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healyje
Nov 20, 2006, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: To be perfectly honest, I am not %100 sure that the placement was even ok.
I would have to go with this and say the placement was clearly bad if the cam didn't fail and the rock was intact.
I've shied away from these for one reason - the fragility of the cam lobes and linkages themselves. I have no doubt they'll work in good placements if slung such that the stems / shafts don't ride up and then get rotated down hard in a fall. But I have - zero - confidence in their ability to not disentigrate if the piece rides up and they are subject to any 'out-of-plane' rotation at all.
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rhunter
Nov 20, 2006, 8:31 PM
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Registered: Mar 24, 2006
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Yeah, I fell about 6 feet onto a number 2 (twice on the same placement actually) and it held fine. In general I find these to hold a bit too well, in that they can be a bit more of a pain to clean than the other cams I climb with (BD, Metolius and WC).
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hibby11
Nov 20, 2006, 8:39 PM
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Registered: Jul 8, 2004
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I took about a 10-15 footer on the yellow one (#2?) and it held. I've placed it numerous times after as I trust it now but in the beginning I was a skeptic about how good they would hold.
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fatman
Nov 20, 2006, 9:28 PM
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Registered: Nov 8, 2004
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In reply to: I've shied away from these for one reason - the fragility of the cam lobes and linkages themselves. I have no doubt they'll work in good placements if slung such that the stems / shafts don't ride up and then get rotated down hard in a fall. But I have - zero - confidence in their ability to not disentigrate if the piece rides up and they are subject to any 'out-of-plane' rotation at all.
Yeah, i second that about their fragility. I broke my partner's link cam wires, and the thing was just hanging on my harness. It seems the tiny little pins they use to hold the wire into the trigger just rips out pretty easily.
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jumpingrock
Nov 21, 2006, 5:32 PM
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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In reply to: In reply to: jumpingrock, I'd be interested to hear more about this ok placement, and how the failure occured. Can you describe the placement? Can you describe the failure? did it fail as soon as you weighted it, or were you able to stand on it for a moment? Did it slide out, or was it a sudden pop? What lobe of the link was engaged? the biggest, the middle, or the smallest? Could you see if contact with the rock was on a joint between lobe sections? Flaring? Yeah I'd be very interested to hear this info as well. I've been very curious about these cams. I like the range and can see it's usefulness but I've always wondered whether or not this cam just has too many moving parts and too much going on with it to be as good as the well tested traditional designs. Jason
It was my first second aid placement ever. The first placement was a hex. It was wedged using a loose block in a large crack. The loose block was balanced on another loose block so I was suitably nervous about the placement. I think I rushed the link cam placement as I really wanted to get off the hex. Of course I then fell on the hex and it held like a champ. (it was a fall onto a daisy chain which is a big no no but I will use the I was nervous and screwed up defense)
(All details below are suspect as I didn't really exam the placement after falling. I climbed a bit higher in the aiders and placed a #3 BD. And then carried on without further incident)
The rock was conglomerate and somewhat loose in places. It was very dirty as the crag is not visited often. The placement itself was probably a 1 to 1.5 inch wide crack. I think that the placement would have been middle lobs possibly inner outside lobs.
The failure was as soon as I weighted it and it popped out.
The crack was not flaring, but it might have been on a joint between two lob sections. I'll look at the cam when I get home to get a better picture of the placement.
I'm thinking that it was a bad placement based on rushing and stress which is bad so I'll have to pay more attention.
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