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rapping off if there are no chains?
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redpoint73


Nov 20, 2006, 6:30 AM
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Re: [bman505] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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careful with the slings. I think this happened at the Red a while ago. climber sends, threads rope over sling, raps the double line to the base. before they pull the rope, other climber wants to TR the route. Sends the route, begins lowering, and the rope saws right through the sling. I think the climber was lucky made it out alive.
If you don't wanna leave biners or quicklinks, pull the rope immediately after you rap.

BT

Anyone stupid enough to TR or lower through slings must be a total moron. Most likely beginners that had no idea what they were doing, and had no business climbing outside without some proper training.

If there was enough friction to saw the slings, I bet the rope is messed up, too.


bman505


Nov 20, 2006, 8:56 AM
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Re: [redpoint73] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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careful with the slings. I think this happened at the Red a while ago. climber sends, threads rope over sling, raps the double line to the base. before they pull the rope, other climber wants to TR the route. Sends the route, begins lowering, and the rope saws right through the sling. I think the climber was lucky made it out alive.
If you don't wanna leave biners or quicklinks, pull the rope immediately after you rap.

BT

Anyone stupid enough to TR or lower through slings must be a total moron. Most likely beginners that had no idea what they were doing, and had no business climbing outside without some proper training.

If there was enough friction to saw the slings, I bet the rope is messed up, too.

I agree, they obviously had no business climbing outside.


zeke_sf


Nov 20, 2006, 9:17 AM
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Re: [bman505] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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careful with the slings. I think this happened at the Red a while ago. climber sends, threads rope over sling, raps the double line to the base. before they pull the rope, other climber wants to TR the route. Sends the route, begins lowering, and the rope saws right through the sling. I think the climber was lucky made it out alive.
If you don't wanna leave biners or quicklinks, pull the rope immediately after you rap.

BT

Anyone stupid enough to TR or lower through slings must be a total moron. Most likely beginners that had no idea what they were doing, and had no business climbing outside without some proper training.

If there was enough friction to saw the slings, I bet the rope is messed up, too.

I agree, they obviously had no business climbing outside.

even the best make mistakes. todd skinner, anybody? sounds like the leader could have spaced after a hard lead and the follower maybe didn't know what the setup was. of course, they should they have figured it after getting to the top and before lowering...


jt512


Nov 20, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Re: [crackrn] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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Just a question: let's say you had no foreknowledge that there were just hangers at the end. I don't know many people who randomly carry quicklinks with them. So in that case, what the OP said seems to be the only thing to do...or is there another option?

Leave the cheapest safe stuff you have. In the pre-sewn sling era, that usually meant webbing. Since few climbers carry webbing nowadays, you will probably have to choose between your worst biners and your most tattered slings.

Then, next time, choose a better sport route or crag.

Jay


jt512


Nov 20, 2006, 11:57 AM
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Re: [scottquig] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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So If I'm doing alpine trad with, say, 10 pitches, I'm supposed to carry 20 quicklinks? I sure don't think so! I hope you guys have a better solution for me, because otherwise I'm just rapping off the two hangars.

Thanks for the warning. I'm glad I'm not your partner.

Jay


slobmonster


Nov 20, 2006, 12:13 PM
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Re: [jt512] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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The photo linked below shows a little trick I use when rapping off remote routes, or when I must leave a minimum of gear. Note "dog-eared" overhand at the master point, allowing for a modest level of redundancy.

http://smg.photobucket.com/...current=DSCN2443.jpg


itsmegz8321


Nov 20, 2006, 12:29 PM
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Re: [thatnameisalreadychosen] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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[http://www.climbing.com/techtips/ttsport223/]

I have watched my friend use this technique, and it worked quite well. He used it on a highly rated route where there were 2 bolts halfway up for a bail point. Best of all, no gear had to be left!


(This post was edited by itsmegz8321 on Nov 20, 2006, 12:31 PM)


desertdude420


Nov 21, 2006, 10:32 AM
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Re: [winglessangel] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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O.K., One more time... DO NOT THREAD YOUR ROPE THROUGH BOLT HANGERS!!! Do whatever you can to avoid this mistake. Use quicklinks, bail biners, spare cord or webbing, sacrifice a slung hex, large wired stoppers, or even your gear sling(if it's rated full strength)! Climbing into the unknown means being prepared to encounter bad or even missing anchors. I would sooner leave my rope fixed and rap (single strand) to get to the ground than thread any rope through sharp bolt hangers!!! Don't be a mothers lament!!!


coastal_climber


Nov 21, 2006, 2:42 PM
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Re: [desertdude420] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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O.K., One more time... DO NOT THREAD YOUR ROPE THROUGH BOLT HANGERS!!! Do whatever you can to avoid this mistake. Use quicklinks, bail biners, spare cord or webbing, sacrifice a slung hex, large wired stoppers, or even your gear sling(if it's rated full strength)! Climbing into the unknown means being prepared to encounter bad or even missing anchors. I would sooner leave my rope fixed and rap (single strand) to get to the ground than thread any rope through sharp bolt hangers!!! Don't be a mothers lament!!!

Now its going to get ugly.


Partner ctardi


Nov 21, 2006, 7:09 PM
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Re: [desertdude420] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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O.K., One more time... DO NOT THREAD YOUR ROPE THROUGH BOLT HANGERS!!! Do whatever you can to avoid this mistake. Use quicklinks, bail biners, spare cord or webbing, sacrifice a slung hex, large wired stoppers, or even your gear sling(if it's rated full strength)! Climbing into the unknown means being prepared to encounter bad or even missing anchors. I would sooner leave my rope fixed and rap (single strand) to get to the ground than thread any rope through sharp bolt hangers!!! Don't be a mothers lament!!!

I'm assuming you meant unless they are fixie hangers...


redpoint73


Nov 22, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Re: [ctardi] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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O.K., One more time... DO NOT THREAD YOUR ROPE THROUGH BOLT HANGERS!!! Do whatever you can to avoid this mistake. Use quicklinks, bail biners, spare cord or webbing, sacrifice a slung hex, large wired stoppers, or even your gear sling(if it's rated full strength)! Climbing into the unknown means being prepared to encounter bad or even missing anchors. I would sooner leave my rope fixed and rap (single strand) to get to the ground than thread any rope through sharp bolt hangers!!! Don't be a mothers lament!!!

I'm assuming you meant unless they are fixie hangers...


He did qualify it by saying not to thread your rope through sharp bolt hangers. I'm sure he means the usual bolt hanger, not a something like the Metolius Rap Hangers (the thick ones that are designed to rappel from).

Fixe doesn't make one like the Metolius Rap Hanger, the closest thing is the Super Shut, of the ones with rings. Which you can obviously thread through.

http://www.fixeusa.com/Ancors.htm


Partner ctardi


Nov 22, 2006, 1:03 PM
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Re: [redpoint73] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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I was thinking about the metolious ones...

What is the consensus on glue ins?


winglessangel


Nov 22, 2006, 1:55 PM
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Re: [ctardi] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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What is the consensus on glue ins?


You can rap from glue in. They are made for that.

You still can't TR or lower someone from them. It will wear out the bolt making them very thin. There was a recent thread about that. with a picture of the bolt.

what I don't know is why people make the stops with ugly chains instead of 2 glue ins.
or maybe 2 hangers with one ring each. but never chains, down with chains. they shouldn't even sell chains anymore...

But I haven't put up any routes, this is just an 'user' opinion. Glue ins are more expensive and maybe they are just too anoying to place. I don't know.

As this thread goes I just love even more the Brazilian P bolts. Cheap, no need of glue and has a round edge!! Wink


winglessangel


Nov 22, 2006, 1:59 PM
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Re: [winglessangel] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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the bolt mentioned above showing why you can't TR from bolts

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...76-largest_79170.jpg


Partner ctardi


Nov 22, 2006, 2:41 PM
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Re: [winglessangel] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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I'd almost agree with you, winglessangel, except I prefer a quick link each, as they are easy to replace.


brutusofwyde


Nov 25, 2006, 9:45 PM
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Re: [ctardi] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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The solution developed in Owens Gorge is elegant and cheap, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it.

Mussy Hooks (essentially heavy, thick, durable tow hooks) outlast quick links or descent rings many times over, and are easily replaced when worn through, if the local practice is to top rope through the rap anchors.

But, as has already been noted, if there are no rap chaions or rap hangers or slings already there, there is probably another way off. Sometimes, even in the world of sport, there are additional pitches, and the route actually tops out.

Cordelettes and webbing are good, "single use" emergency rap anchors. Carabiners also. All of these are multi-functional, and thus do not require carrying a piece of gear with no other use than emergency retreat.


coastal_climber


Nov 28, 2006, 5:06 PM
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Re: [winglessangel] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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winglessangel wrote:
the bolt mentioned above showing why you can't TR from bolts

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...76-largest_79170.jpg

It happens that that bolt was classified as a Non-Climbing hanger.


hawkeye69


Nov 29, 2006, 9:50 PM
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Re: [kingAndy] rapping off if there are no chains? [In reply to]
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kingAndy wrote:
Sometimes I find no chain or rings at the anchor stations, only 2 regular bolts (hangers like the ones where my draws attach too) In the past I have pulled the rope through both and rapped off, is this safe or should I use a sling there. Which makes me wonder why I never see any slings up at these anchors.

given that a sport climber is worth less than the cost of two biners this is a perfect acceptable way to do things...

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