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tibetnkid
Dec 5, 2006, 12:27 AM
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i'm short on cash (as many of us are) and i want to know what ya'll have come up with. has anyone used tent flys or cheap tarp? any other inexpensive materials that will get the job done?
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tattooed_climber
Dec 5, 2006, 3:43 AM
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if you do any alpine, use your bivy sack...or buy one....you can get cheap ones for around a hundred bucks
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iamthewallress
Dec 5, 2006, 6:25 PM
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Where and when were you going to sleep in your ledge? What type of weather protection you "need" depends on what type of weather you need to be able to survive.
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brutusofwyde
Dec 5, 2006, 6:44 PM
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Exactly. Were I doing El Cap during shoulder season or mid winter, I would take both a pricey rainfly and a bivy sack, and if something big came in, I would be using both to survive.
Brutus
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lambone
Dec 5, 2006, 8:21 PM
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there is no substitute for a good rainfly. unless you don't mind being dead.
my partner on my last wall made his own, but he said with the time and expense of materials (took him a couple of tries to get it right), that he would have been better off buying a cheap one on ebay.
(This post was edited by lambone on Dec 5, 2006, 8:23 PM)
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brutusofwyde
Dec 5, 2006, 9:48 PM
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Second that also. Try to survive any serious storm with something improvised, you'll likely be dead sooner than you had othwerwise planned.
Brutus
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stymingersfink
Dec 6, 2006, 4:58 AM
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Plywood. That's the cheapest material to make caskets out of, unless you'd like to bypass that and just go for the "wrapped-in-a-sheet-mass-burial" look that seems to be so popular in some war-torn third-world countries.
Two days worth of rappelling from the ground, lookin at a fierce storm screaming down on you out of nowhere... this is not the place to regret being a cheap bastard.
try fishproducts.com for some inexpensive, do-the-job, bigwall gear. That's my suggestion.
russ has been around awhile, designs and field-tests his own equipment, and plans on being around a while longer (afaik).
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iamthewallress
Dec 6, 2006, 6:16 PM
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C'mon...This guy didn't ask if it's OK to improvise a fly for a late winter ascent of the Time Machine, he asked if it was ever OK to not have one.
Yes...sometimes it's OK to not have one. If you're on a route where you can quickly get to the ground during good weather season and you have other rain gear 'just in case' (i.e. rain suit and bivy sack), then you can probably safely save your money until you know that you need the $600 unit for something where it might really, really matter.
For example, you're planning on hauling a ledge on Moonlight Buttress in June with a blue bird forcast. A bivy sack and rainsuit will probably do.
Will a fly make you safer? Probably in some way. Would I wait to climb that route (or similar) until I could afford a fly? Hell no.
For something that is going to commit you beyond what a forcast and a look at the sky can tell you (i.e. pretty much anything on El Cap) no mattter what time of year, you probably are best off borrowing a fly (and bringing a bivy sack and rain suit and maybe even a tarp for back up) if you can't find the money to buy one.
(This post was edited by iamthewallress on Dec 6, 2006, 6:25 PM)
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stymingersfink
Dec 7, 2006, 3:29 AM
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iamthewallress wrote: C'mon...This guy didn't ask if it's OK to improvise a fly for a late winter ascent of the Time Machine, he asked if it was ever OK to not have one.
In reply to: i'm short on cash (as many of us are) and i want to know what ya'll have come up with. has anyone used tent flys or cheap tarp? any other inexpensive materials that will get the job done?
wallress wrote: Yes...sometimes it's OK to not have one.
true, in some of the situations you outlined I myself have done without a fly, though I carry a bivysack for those times. Been rained off for one of those times too!
as far as improvising a fly and thinking you're getting away with something... might I remind you that there have been plenty of people who had a manufactured fly and still didn't get away with it? mother nature can be a real bitch when she wants to be.
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ricardol
Dec 7, 2006, 5:50 PM
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fly's are cheap ...
.. i got my last fly for about $150 .. its a A5 Yosemite Fly Double ..
.. no real excuse for not having bomber gear ..
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moof
Dec 7, 2006, 10:41 PM
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Replacement Fish fly is 250 for a single. My econolege plus fly combo came to $450. Sadly that is about what it now costs me in gas to get to yosemite and back...
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lambone
Dec 8, 2006, 9:13 AM
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Wallress, your pertty silly to get on an over night wall without a rainfly imho.
stroms roll in, and you may be prevented form advancing or retreating in it.
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tibetnkid
Dec 11, 2006, 6:13 PM
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hey moof, i've been thinking of getting the econolege and i'm wondering how it's worked for you. how long does it take to set up? any trickery? what about adjusting the "loops" for hieght?
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moof
Dec 11, 2006, 7:10 PM
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tibetnkid wrote: hey moof, i've been thinking of getting the econolege and i'm wondering how it's worked for you. how long does it take to set up? any trickery? what about adjusting the "loops" for hieght?
I've only got about 4 nights in it, but it's been good to me. The lack of the low down adjusters is a non-issue. Adjusting the ancra buckles while sitting in it is pretty easy, hardest part is dealing with the small rats nest of loops to find the right one to tug on.
Only trickery is to practice assembly and packing at home several times. Follow the directions about wrapping the straps around the bundle before shoving it in the bag, and clip the dedicated biner into one of the haul straps for easy retrieval.
If you get a fly from him, look at using the "tumor" (http://www.supertopo.com/...p;msg=89092#msg89092 see the third entry) method for quick fly deployment before trying anything like cutting a hole in your stuff sack, or any of that. Super simple once you try it. Thankfully I've never needed to deploy the fly.
I did sew on my own daisies on the straps for clipping in stuff. I think fish is now putting 2 daisies on the econoledge instead of none (and vs. 4 for the deluxe). Mesh fabric inspires more condifence in me than the pack cloth beds do.
Setup takes me 5-10 minutes in psuedo hanging mode (shitty narrow ledge to sort of stand on), about 5 on a better ledge.
Haven't been in any storms yet, so can't tell you how it will do. I've been thinking about making a spray/wind proof bottom to keep updrafts from soaking me, but probably not worth the effort if I'm already nestled in my bivy sack.
Hard to go wrong with Fish stuff. Not the polished look you'll get from the big guys, but his stuff is bomber, real world tested, and value priced. I've also got some of his adjustable daisies, a budget haul bag (only ~40 pitches on it, and hardly broken in), a fish hook, and a shoulder harness.
(This post was edited by moof on Dec 11, 2006, 7:30 PM)
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holdplease2
Dec 13, 2006, 5:03 PM
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If considering the econoledge, please note that while the mesh is incredibly strong, it is, well, mesh. You might learn that that 1/3 of the wind (more if on El Cap) that you get will be blowing UP at you, forcing spray and water against the bottom of your ledge. Think of the base of the wall as a ramp being hit by wind. See what I mean?
The reason that the Econoledge doesn't come with a fly is that, well, if you are expecting wet weather you should not be on an Econoledge due to the mesh. That is straight from the FISH's mouth. Of course, that doesn't mean that for short walls or summer walls an econoledge and bivy sack wouldn't be fine...depends on where you're going when, I guess.
If there is anything you should take seriously on a wall it is getting wet. This is likely a far bigger threat to your well-being than the hardest leading pitch that you will encounter during your early wall experiences.
Something to think about. Iffin you're going to skimp on your trip maybe protection from the wet isn't the place to do it?
FWIW...
-Kate.
(This post was edited by holdplease2 on Dec 13, 2006, 5:18 PM)
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