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BIGcrazy
Dec 6, 2006, 8:32 PM
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So I am bigger climber about 280 and well this winter I want to both lose weight and drastically improve my climbing.
Although I only have so much time in my calender, basically I kinda need to do one at a time. I was originally going to step up my gym visits and decrease my climbing but then I got thinking, climbed at 280 is a lot more work than climbing at 250 more stress more muscle tear more muscle being built right?
So I figure I will hold off one weight loss and focus on the climbing for 2 more months then lose another 30 pds then focus on climbing.
My heavy climbing routine:
2 days 3.5hrs climbing on mostly inverted
2 days at gym working non climbing muscles and some cardio
1 days at gym working climbing muscles
My weight loss Routine:
5 days cardio
5 days weights
1 day climbing
I am also planning on using creatine to help push my muscles to their limits while working on improving my climbing.
So really this boils down to 2 big questions, should I lose weight then focus on climbing or focus on climbing and lose weight
and is using creatine a good option to help improve my climbing?
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charley
Dec 6, 2006, 10:05 PM
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I have found for me that I can still climb no matter how heavy. Workouts don't really help loose weight except to push away from the table. The first month I ran over 100 miles I gained seven pounds.
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richy
Dec 6, 2006, 10:18 PM
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The last time I took creatine I gained around 20 pounds. I did feel much stronger in short duration weight training, unfortunetly I wasn't climbing at this time but I imagine it would be a help with tough moves. Expect to put on a few pounds within thefirst 2 weeks, you may want to wait a little before putting it in your diet as it may be counterproductive. Weightlifting may not be the best way to help lose weight, unless your doing it strictly for endurance with high reps and sets.
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chadnsc
Dec 6, 2006, 10:36 PM
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I'd say there is no reason why you would have to focus on either losing weight or climbing. In order to lose weight in a healthy manor you need to have a good diet which is a whole other discussion.
The following is a routine I follow to help maintain a decent level of fitness. When doing cardio I tend to get in around 50 min. at a time either in the morning or at lunch. My weekday climbing workouts tend to be the gym and typically consist of 4-8 routes in a 60-90 minute period. I do weight training in the evenings and workouts typically consist of exercises that will balance out my muscle groups.
Mon-Climb and cardio
Tues - Weights and cardio
Wed.- Rest
Thurs.- Climb and cardio
Fri.- Lift
Sat.-Climb or Long Cardio (backpacking, ski, ect)
Sun. - Rest or light Cardio
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tribaltalon
Dec 7, 2006, 3:07 AM
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dude, you need to do research!! your routine is going to build muscle mass, not make you lose weight. ESPECIALLY creatine.. that's a mass builder, not for weight loss. i would stay away from creatine, and just work on your diet dramatically.
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yokese
Dec 7, 2006, 3:20 AM
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BIGcrazy wrote: ...I am also planning on using creatine to help push my muscles to their limits while working on improving my climbing... and is using creatine a good option to help improve my climbing?...
BIGcrazy wrote: ...I often think the same about some routes, there are a few indoor 5.9s I can climb in my a sleep and few 5.8s that woop my ass...
I'm not sure you're in the right track to improve your climbing, but that's just my opinion. 
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jt512
Dec 7, 2006, 4:49 AM
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Climbing will help you lose weight, so it is counterproductive to separate your climbing from your weight loss efforts. Weight lifting and creatine supplementation, on the other hand, will hinder both your climbing and your weight loss efforts, so you should neither lift nor take creatine. Rather, climb and do cardio as often as you can, and follow an appropriate weight-loss diet. See my thread, How to Lose Weight to Improve Your Climbing.
Jay
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gryph
Dec 7, 2006, 5:19 AM
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Creatine does not necessarily mean gaining weight. Weight gain from using creatine is often attributed to water weight, but not everyone experiences this. Different types of creatine and different people react in different ways. When I have used micronized creatine, I have never experienced any weight gain. I have also never gone trhoguh a loading phase. What I have noticed is better stamina during a session (i.e. quicker recovery between burns.. which is the purpose of creatine useage)
With creatine, what I would recommend is using a micronized creatine. Other than that, it takes ecperimenting to find out what combination of loading phase and maintenance levels works for your body.. I prefer no loading and 5mg (one teaspoon) per day.
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pro_alien
Dec 7, 2006, 10:54 AM
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Form follows function... Your body will adapt to what you are doing. If you want to become a better climber, climb. Preferably not just the routes you can do in your sleep, but the ones that make you think and learn technique. Straight up finicky stuff, not inverted jug hauls.
Cardio is boring... can you integrate it in your other activities, e.g. ride a bike instead of use the car ?
Doing more weights does not sound like a good weight loss plan for you.
Pascal
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hrtmnstrfr
Dec 7, 2006, 2:34 PM
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I was about 260 when I started climbing so I know what your are going through. You need to lose weight but how much depends on you and what you want to climb (i.e. how hard). What worked for me is running, I signed up for a marathon, found a training schedule online and just started running. You will notice as you start losing weight the climbing will become easier. For me I had lots of shoulder and elbow pain so I had to rest quite a bit. Try not to lift weights unless you do high reps and even then only workout your pull muscles and their matched opposing muscles.
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hrtmnstrfr
Dec 7, 2006, 2:59 PM
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Also don't forget that climbing is a largely anaerobic activity meaning it is possible to climb all day and still gain weight. If you are trying to loose weight you need at least 20 mins of cardio per workout and like 3-4 sessions a week. Keep the weight training to a minimum.
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ranther
Dec 7, 2006, 4:51 PM
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hrtmnstrfr wrote: Also don't forget that climbing is a largely anaerobic activity meaning it is possible to climb all day and still gain weight....
I think this is nonsense. Anaerobic or aerobic - climbing burns calories. At the end of the day those burned calories will contribute to your caloric deficit thereby promote weight loss.
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jgloporto
Dec 7, 2006, 5:21 PM
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Creatine seems to work well for some and not for others. When I was a teenager, I added alot of muscle mass when I started creatine but the last time I did a cycle, it didn't do much. With creatine you need to do a load cycle and then a maintenance cycle for a couple of months and then take a break from it.
The only thing that I would caution you about is that creatine increases the risk of dehydrating. If you climb in warmer weather areas, I would say that what could be gained from taking it might not be worth the risk especially since you probably have even odds that it will produce anything meaningful at all. Your routine seems adequate to accomplish your objectives without supplementing.
Proper diet, a multi-vitamin, and lots of protein. That's my two bits.
Good luck.
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jonzoclimber
Dec 7, 2006, 5:22 PM
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People on this website are ridiculous about overanalyzing the best way to lose weight and improve climbing yadda yadda yadda. The best way to lose weight is to get into a routine that you can actually keep up with effortlessly. In addition you should just be concious of what you're eating. What I've been doing recently is just sitting down on the floor whenever I have a random gap of about ummm a minute (i dont care what anyone says, ever person out there has time to spare) and do some sit ups or push ups, just something. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you get your heart going throughout the day you'll be burning more callories then you would had you just sat there. Just think in terms of general trends, if you work out a bit everyday in addition to climbing you'll be golden.
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zealotnoob
Dec 7, 2006, 6:43 PM
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I'm starting to think that there are major flaws in trying to micro-manage your routine. That being said, I've lost 20lbs since August from climbing around 3 times a week and throwing in some hiking/biking/jogging/other gym workouts here and there. Eating less has also been huge. To sum up: do stuff, eat less. Everything else is distraction.
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jt512
Dec 7, 2006, 6:50 PM
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gryph wrote: Creatine does not necessarily mean gaining weight. Weight gain from using creatine is often attributed to water weight, but not everyone experiences this.
Probably more like not everybody notices.
In reply to: Different types of creatine and different people react in different ways. When I have used micronized creatine, I have never experienced any weight gain.
It's exactly the same compound, only more finely divided. Both micronized and regular creatine will cause water-weight gain by the exact same mechanism.
Jay
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talnlnky
Dec 7, 2006, 11:45 PM
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From what i've picked up from both biology/chemistry & health & fitness majors at the university i went to....
creatine really has very lil benefit except possibly supplying the muscle with more water.
generally tho, it just adds water weight. One of my best friends tried creatine, during his normal lifting routine last spring/summer.... and he said he noticed a decrease in his quick movements in basketball. He felt like he reacted slower, and that in generally lowered his performance.
i'd say stay away, save your money, focus on diet. Remove juices and other sugary liquids, along with foods high in trans-fat.
and then be sure to add in some cardio like jogging, or swimming.
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minn8325
Dec 8, 2006, 3:28 AM
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Your muscle grow 3 times faster than your ligaments unless you are a high level lifter Suplimenting is gonna hurt you in the logn run.
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BIGcrazy
Dec 8, 2006, 5:00 PM
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thanks guys
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jt512
Dec 8, 2006, 9:39 PM
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talnlnky wrote: From what i've picked up from both biology/chemistry & health & fitness majors at the university i went to.... creatine really has very lil benefit except possibly supplying the muscle with more water.
Numerous controlled studies have demonstrated that creatine improves performance in power sports like weight lifting and sprint cycling. Whether it would help climbers is unclear because of the associated weight gain.
Jay
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muttblood
Dec 14, 2006, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: The only thing that I would caution you about is that creatine increases the risk of dehydrating. If you climb in warmer weather areas, I would say that what could be gained from taking it might not be worth the risk especially since you probably have even odds that it will produce anything meaningful at all.
This is absolutely, positively FALSE. There is no scientific data to back this claim up, and in fact, research articles that have been published within the last two years actually DISPROVES this.
It is true that someone else mentioned, is that most of the shortterm weight gained from creatine is water weight. It can be helpful for single-pitch climbing.
If you want to lose weight, eat a proper diet (see mypyramid.gov, there is a diet and exercise tracker) and burn some calories.
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jt512
Dec 14, 2006, 6:22 PM
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muttblood wrote: In reply to: The only thing that I would caution you about is that creatine increases the risk of dehydrating. If you climb in warmer weather areas, I would say that what could be gained from taking it might not be worth the risk especially since you probably have even odds that it will produce anything meaningful at all. This is absolutely, positively FALSE. There is no scientific data to back this claim up, and in fact, research articles that have been published within the last two years actually DISPROVES this. It is true that someone else mentioned, is that most of the shortterm weight gained from creatine is water weight. It can be helpful for single-pitch climbing.
There is no scientific evidence for that! [bolding added]
Jay
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muttblood
Dec 14, 2006, 6:38 PM
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You are absolutely correct, Jay, there is no scientific evidence for it....that's why I put 'can be helpful' and not 'is helpful'. :-) It's something I would love to test, but I think would be difficult because of the nuances of 'climbing improvement' and climbing 'performance'. I base my argument of 'can', because it's meant to aid in recovery and to help in anaerobic efforts. So, it is possible that for someone doing a day or weekend of climbing, it may help a climber be able to successfully climb more routes before exhaustion.
But yes, I will put a disclaimer that there is no scientific evidence that creatine helps with climbing.
PS...any suggestions for that, Jay?
(This post was edited by muttblood on Dec 14, 2006, 6:47 PM)
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jgloporto
Dec 14, 2006, 6:52 PM
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Listen guy, while I agree with your overall point, namely that traditional diet and excercise is the appropriate course, I think you may be misled about creatine. The increase in water equals an increase in weight (bulk) which is a good thing, I guess, if you are a body builder and the increase is discernable. I have used it over and over again and haven't noticed any difference and in fact, at this point, outside of whey protein and amino acid supplements, I don't buy anything from GNC.
As far as increased strength goes, rarely are studies of these things compared against a placebo and they are never conducted by the FDA. If grabbed a bunch of weightlifters and told them that I had created a new supplement that would make them stronger made of magic beans that I got for two cows, they probably would report a power/strength increase.
You might want to research the side effects of creatine: short term weight gain, dehydration and digestive problems.
There is no secret sauce out there except for HGH (but hey, its not like there is drug testing in rock climbing anyway). Consistent training using proper technique and a proper diet is the only thing that will work.
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colkurtz
Dec 14, 2006, 7:13 PM
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fda dont conduct no tests.
but get this creatine may have different effects with different people.
it may increase your iq it may cause weight gain.
also your diet might matter.
also most of the medical studies i read have incorrect protocol and absurd interpretation of the data.
but thats how researchers get paid. headlines.
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