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playouts1de
Dec 8, 2006, 9:10 PM
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There are but three true sports--bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games.
- Erntest Hemingway
So what then is the deinition of Sport? How about Game?
I love the quote, but wonder if there are other thingsa Hemingway would consider sport in todays context.
Whaddya think?
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devils_advocate
Dec 8, 2006, 9:35 PM
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playouts1de wrote: There are but three true sports--bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. - Erntest Hemingway So what then is the deinition of Sport?
By Erntest [sic] definition? Bullfighting, mountain climbing and motor-racing.
In reply to: How about [the definition of] Game?
All the rest. Didn't you read your own post?
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climberman15
Dec 8, 2006, 9:44 PM
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playouts1de wrote: So what then is the deinition of Sport? How about Game?
I heard this from someone (probably on this site) and can take no credit for it but I love it....
Games require only one ball, sports require two.
.
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jdouble
Dec 8, 2006, 10:27 PM
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Ernest don't surf (big waves).
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areyoumydude
Dec 8, 2006, 11:47 PM
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Well I'd say none of them are sports.
Bullfighting is animal abuse.
Race car driving is lame.
And Mountain climbing is art.
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colotopian
Dec 9, 2006, 2:27 AM
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areyoumydude wrote: Well I'd say none of them are sports. Bullfighting is animal abuse. Race car driving is lame. And Mountain climbing is art.
Hey.... come-on. Don't fyouck with NASCAR. Where else can you see someone make left turns all day? 
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freebass
Dec 9, 2006, 2:47 AM
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agree with jdouble, Enerst don't surf
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secretninja
Dec 9, 2006, 4:34 AM
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moto gp=sweet action!
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jt512
Dec 9, 2006, 5:20 AM
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Trolling is a sport.
Jay
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playouts1de
Dec 9, 2006, 9:31 AM
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So, jst to clear the air, it was a legit question....not a troll. I am curious to see what other people think of Hemingways definition of sport and how it differs from what we might call sport today.
I agree with the surfing bit.
One def. that I found was that sport required physical prowess and technical ability or skill. Football and other sports dont require these things. they are nice to have, but not required. Anyone can buy a football and go to a park for a simple game. Thats not true IMO for climbing, which REQUIRES training both in strength AND skill to even get a few feet off of the ground, much less be safe about it.
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mturner
Dec 9, 2006, 3:54 PM
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climberman15 wrote: Games require only one ball, sports require two.
Well with that logic, the way I play golf is a sport which it clearly isn't.
playouts1de wrote: So, jst to clear the air, it was a legit question....not a troll. I am curious to see what other people think of Hemingways definition of sport and how it differs from what we might call sport today. I agree with the surfing bit. One def. that I found was that sport required physical prowess and technical ability or skill. Football and other sports dont require these things. they are nice to have, but not required. Anyone can buy a football and go to a park for a simple game. Thats not true IMO for climbing, which REQUIRES training both in strength AND skill to even get a few feet off of the ground, much less be safe about it.
I get what you're saying but wouldn't we then have to include things like pole vaulting and underwater basket weaving which both require some practice? You're right that anybody can go to the park for a simple game, but to get really good at football or any other major "sport" then they need to practice and develop skills and techniques. The same is true for climbers. Any little kid, we've all seen them, can go to the gym and play around on some easy routes, but most of them clearly lack the proper technique and strength to actually have mastered climbing.
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devkrev
Dec 9, 2006, 4:01 PM
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I bet Ernest would put getting piss-drunk in the game category.
dev
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cintune
Dec 9, 2006, 4:11 PM
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http://www.theknese.com/pages/Hemingway.php
"If I had a dollar for each time the following quotation was submitted, I would soon corral enough money to pay my web hosting fees until the next millennium:
"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."
I've received this inquiry so many times that it prompted me to e-mail back a standard reply:
This is one in a long list of quotations mysteriously attributed to Ernest Hemingway. While the general public seem to agree that this is in fact a Hemingway quotation, scholars have some reservations and for good reason. The early Hemingway did not believe that bullfighting was a sport. For him it was a tragedy. See his October 20, 1923 article titled "Bullfighting A Tragedy" reprinted in By-Line: Ernest Hemingway Selected Articles and Dispatches of Four Decades edited by William White. Hemingway reiterates his beliefs regarding the tragedy of bullfighting in his 1932 book, Death in the Afternoon.
After years of searching, I have been unsuccessful in attributing this quotation to Ernest Hemingway or to anyone else for that matter."
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tattooed_climber
Dec 10, 2006, 2:16 AM
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climberman15 wrote: Games require only one ball, sports require two. .
where does lawn bowling fit into this theory?????
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climbsomething
Dec 10, 2006, 2:48 AM
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Ol' Ernie's quote is RIGHT up there with Alex Lowe's "best climber most fun rah rah" quote in terms of cliche.
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angry
Dec 10, 2006, 3:01 AM
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Climbing is not a sport. Don't get all hung up on it. It's an activity. An activity that requires lots of physical prowess, years of practice, and a certain edge to excel. Still it's not a sport.
Why do you people want to call it a sport so bad? What is it about the title "sport" that makes you so proud?
A world-class climber (if s/he's only a climber) isn't an athlete either. S/he's a very skilled mover.
::puts on flame resistant suit::
Bring it on!!
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cintune
Dec 10, 2006, 3:08 AM
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Climbing is an art.
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chalkfree
Dec 10, 2006, 4:05 AM
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To quote some clever bastard in Red Rocks
"Sport Climbing is Neither"
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jt512
Dec 10, 2006, 4:25 AM
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angry wrote: Climbing is not a sport. Don't get all hung up on it. It's an activity. An activity that requires lots of physical prowess, years of practice, and a certain edge to excel. Still it's not a sport.
By definition 2 or 3 below (from dictionary.com) climbing would seem to be a sport.
In reply to: 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors. 3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
Football is clearly a sport, contrary to the odd claim made by one poster.
In reply to: A world-class climber (if s/he's only a climber) isn't an athlete either.
Huh? I'm not even going to bother to look that definition up.
Jay
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fixednut
Dec 10, 2006, 4:42 AM
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vomit vomit vomit
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devils_advocate
Dec 11, 2006, 5:41 PM
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I can see we are not going to come to agreement in this thread. But, I bet that the next time someone starts the "is climbing a sport" topic, and they will, we will resolve this issue, once and for all. [roll]
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jakub
Dec 11, 2006, 6:51 PM
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In context of this quote, I believe that a sport is the act of facing death in the activity. Not the possibility, but embracing the fear and the rush from feeling like you are cheating it. I did a bit of road racing before I got more involved in climbing. Its hard, its exciting, and climbing comes close to matching it. Keep in mind at Hemingway's time cars had drum brakes, racing was not sport for the timid or unskilled.
Also to the author I doubt that most modern would be considered a sport, mountaineering and multi pitch trad, certainly would though.
To answer the OP, some forms of down hill mountain biking, base jumping (maybe), land speed record setting, or anything in which you accept your own mortality going into the activity as concept, dare not think about your mortality in execution, and understand your mortality if you succeed.
It already been said, but a Wikipedia article says that he probably didn't say this. Having read a bunch of his other quotes I tend to agree. Although there is a Hemingway feel to it. Having said that, I love this quote and use it a lot.
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