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jeremy11
Dec 12, 2006, 1:44 AM
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what is the best biner for connecting a grigri to the harness for lead solo? on the one I've been using (omega 4.0 locker) the gri rides up onto the spine in a weird twist-load that doesnt look too strong. whats a good biner (or best general shape) to use that keeps it in place nice? I haven't/won't do any mods on the gri, it just hangs down. I'm thinking not a pear, or something odd shaped like the omega 4.0, more of a asymetric D or symetric D. I also clip it to the tie in loop on the harness - the one the belay loop goes thru on top, to lessen failure points and make it a bit higher up for easier clipping - good idea, or is this holding it tighter so the gri is having a bit of trouble staying in the right spot???
or am I just thinking too much
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timm
Dec 12, 2006, 1:46 AM
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I use a DMM Belay Master for my roped solo stuff.
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shimanilami
Dec 12, 2006, 2:22 AM
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I'll second the Belay Master.
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jeremy11
Dec 12, 2006, 3:30 AM
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do you put the grigri on the skinny end or the big end? its easy for a pear biner to get loaded on the gate side of the big end even with the plastic thingy(?)
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moose_droppings
Dec 12, 2006, 3:50 AM
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I don't use a grigri but roped soloing I use a steel D locker.
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stymingersfink
Dec 12, 2006, 6:38 AM
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positron screwgate + broccolli rubberband = tru happiness
'course, when i get lzxy I tend to do away with the rubberband, which requires me to pay more attention to the setup
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healyje
Dec 12, 2006, 6:53 AM
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I use a Maillon Rapide on the belay loop Backed up with an 8mm Mammut Dyneema through the same grigri biner hole but to a Trango Superfly locker to the harness loops. No biner makes me particularly comfortable but I'd go with the steel one if I were.
(This post was edited by healyje on Dec 12, 2006, 9:21 AM)
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lambone
Dec 12, 2006, 7:09 AM
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DMM Belaymaster
The new Petzl Frieno biner or whatever it is looks interesting and like it might not crossload.
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healyje
Dec 12, 2006, 9:27 AM
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lambone wrote: DMM Belaymaster The new Petzl Frieno biner or whatever it is looks interesting and like it might not crossload.
I checked that one out awhile back and didn't like the interaction with the grigi. The DMM is insufficient protection by itself in my view. The setup with the Mallion Rapide quicklink and Dyneema a sling is the only way the grigri can be backed up in the event of a connector device failing. I recommend folks take a look at it...
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frodolf
Dec 12, 2006, 12:06 PM
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I use a 40kn-monster from Kong for my grigri. It's a D. With that, and maybe a rubber band or some tape to keep it in place, I don't feel that I need an other point of attachment. And even if the biner would brake, I always tie an independent BU.
I useally dubble up the belayloop though (tie one more, preferbly 7mm cord), since there is so much depending on that piece of webbing all the time.
BTW, Kong manufacture a 60kn biner, made from carbon steel. Also a D. UIAA, and CE. I've never seen a biner that strong.
(This post was edited by frodolf on Dec 12, 2006, 12:13 PM)
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healyje
Dec 12, 2006, 6:09 PM
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I stand corrected - 40 or 60 kn would likely do the job nicely. I don't use back up knots due to the hassle and so like having the quick link backed up at the grigri.
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trogdortheburninator1
Dec 12, 2006, 6:26 PM
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I am just getting started in solo aid, and at the advice of someone more experienced went with burly steel vs the DMM belaymaster. These steel biners are f'in tanks. I got this one.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47902810&parent_category_rn=4500680&vcat=REI_SEARCH
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moof
Dec 12, 2006, 6:35 PM
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I'll second the maillon rapid link. I'ave found the addition bonus that is is more compact and keeps the gri-gri from wacking into the nethers so much.
I used to use an attache, but there were too many times that I lookeddown and found the thing in one bizarre orientation or antoher, or that the screw gat has started to loosen. Bad ju-ju.
I've also used the solo-aid. For straight leading it is similar in hassle to the gri-gri, but really isn't usable for lower out and rappelling no matter what they say in the manual.
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jeremy11
Dec 12, 2006, 10:06 PM
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ok, steel is nice so it doesnt need a backup, but what if the grigri is loaded in a twisted up orientation, would the gri plates bend or snap?? thankfully though, I need to feed rope thru often enough that I've always got my eye on the thing. they should make a grigri solo edition with one of the plates extended and a hole for cord/webbing backup which would also keeo you from dropping it while putting the rope in or out. then they would have to get it certified for solo I suppose.
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healyje
Dec 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: I need to feed rope thru often enough that I've always got my eye on the thing.
Yep, you need to keep a close eye on the grigri at all times. I check bordering on every significant move. the Mallion Rapide does help keep it well-oriented though.
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lambone
Dec 12, 2006, 10:59 PM
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healyje wrote: I stand corrected - 40 or 60 kn would likely do the job nicely. I don't use back up knots due to the hassle and so like having the quick link backed up at the grigri.
This is foolish, imho.
You double back up your grigri biner, but you don't use a back up knot!? I can think of several ways the gri-gri could be prevented from engaging. None have happened to me yet...but what if.
You should use back up knots dude.
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jeremy11
Dec 12, 2006, 11:51 PM
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backup knots are my friend!! they get a bit annoying sometimes, but they are great to have around. they do seem kindof useless 15 feet up with one piece in, but higher up its good to have a hard connection.
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epic_ed
Dec 13, 2006, 6:20 AM
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healyje wrote: I use a Maillon Rapide on the belay loop Backed up with an 8mm Mammut Dyneema through the same grigri biner hole but to a Trango Superfly locker to the harness loops. No biner makes me particularly comfortable but I'd go with the steel one if I were.
I can't quite picture how you have this rigged -- any photos?
Ed
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2006, 8:38 AM
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lambone wrote: healyje wrote: I stand corrected - 40 or 60 kn would likely do the job nicely. I don't use back up knots due to the hassle and so like having the quick link backed up at the grigri. This is foolish, imho. You double back up your grigri biner, but you don't use a back up knot!? I can think of several ways the gri-gri could be prevented from engaging. None have happened to me yet...but what if. You should use back up knots dude.
I think you meant to say:In reply to: You
REALLY should use back up knots dude.
If you didn't I will..
It's REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, important that you have a backup knot in use that will keep you off the deck if it comes into play.
The time you decide you can do without a backup knot just this once will be the time you discover you really did need it.
Know what it feels like to realize the end of your rope just went whipping through your belay device?
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healyje
Dec 13, 2006, 9:13 AM
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lambone wrote: You should use back up knots dude.
Folks, I've been free roped soloing at a reasonably high level for thirty years now. Roped soloing probably constitutes 40-50% of all the climbing I do and I climb a lot. I've done it on every conceivable system and technique imaginable. I know exactly what I'm doing and know just what tradeoffs I'm making when I say I don't use backup knots when free roped soloing. I do use backup knots when aid soloing, but not when free climbing. I do, however, on rare occasion throw a clove on a regular biner for a particularly peculiar move - typically on more traversing terrain. This is not a snap decision on my part - it is a carefully crafted personal approach to roped soloing that I have validated for myself again and again.
My current system uses an A5 rope bucket inside a GoLite "Race" backpack for the rope (with added gear slings and sized small so the waist strap runs high). The rope comes out of the pack and through a keeper biner high on the shoulder strap. It then runs through an Edelrid Eddy on the belay loop with an oval Petzl locker with a Mammut 8mm sling backup and down to an anchor with a screamer built into it. I had previously been using a Mammut Supersafe with my GriGri setup and the Eddy is looking like it requires a 10 or 9.8mm for optimum feeding. The Eddy is currently in eval status and I have yet to make up my mind about it. I also need to get a steel oval for it as my Mallion Rapides won't work on it.
I do not recommed that others do as I do, or even that they rope solo. I do recommend folks who find their way to roped soloing figure out what works for them from the many component techniques and system elements. Learn everything you can, don't be afraid to figure it out, and don't blindly trust what anyone says works for them - figure out what works for you.
(This post was edited by healyje on Dec 13, 2006, 9:46 AM)
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2006, 5:15 PM
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healyje wrote: lambone wrote: You should use back up knots dude. Roped soloing probably constitutes 40-50% of all the climbing I do and I climb a lot. I've done it on every conceivable system and technique imaginable. I know exactly what I'm doing and know just what tradeoffs I'm making when I say I don't use backup knots when free roped soloing. I do use backup knots when aid soloing, but not when free climbing.
Healyj generally has good information to share on the boards, but in this case I think he was off base. Except his disclaimer, which was right on.
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healyje
Dec 13, 2006, 6:06 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: healyje wrote: lambone wrote: You should use back up knots dude. Roped soloing probably constitutes 40-50% of all the climbing I do and I climb a lot. I've done it on every conceivable system and technique imaginable. I know exactly what I'm doing and know just what tradeoffs I'm making when I say I don't use backup knots when free roped soloing. I do use backup knots when aid soloing, but not when free climbing. Having climbed solo for as long and as frequently as you state, I would imagine you have enough experience to determine when you are going to choose to work without a backup. I find it hard to believe that you would pass on such an endorsement to someone who may or may not be able to make such a judgement call, especially when you go on to state that when AIDING you b/u, but not when FREEclimbing (this was in the AID forum afterall). Healyj generally has good information to share on the boards, but in this case I think he was off base. Except his disclaimer, which was right on.
Stym, Which part of that disclaimer did you miss? I did not "endorse" that anyone do anything, I specifically didn't "endorse" anyone not use backup knots. Anyone 'who may or may not be able to make such a judgement call' should not be roped soloing, period. In that regard, roped soloing - like free soloing - is the essence of Darwin at work and I would very much hope it will always remain so.
My imperative when I free roped solo is moving fast. I do pitches in about 2/3's the time of a roped pair. I only do multi-pitch routes and regularly do them in 5.9-.10 range. Most are routes I'm familiar with, but when I travel it's almost always onsight with no idea of the grade.
Now you have a gripe in this being the Aid forum which I clearly missed, but I did very clearly state I operate differently in each realm. Again, anyone not capable of sorting through all the options shouldn't be roped soloing, aid or free.
(This post was edited by healyje on Dec 13, 2006, 6:07 PM)
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sungam
Dec 13, 2006, 6:16 PM
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DMM Make a steel screwgate that fits the plastic DMM Belay Master.
This is undoubtidly the best setup, especially when a rubber stopper is also used.
-Magnus
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lambone
Dec 13, 2006, 6:56 PM
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what is the rubber stopper and rubber band you guys are talking about? how do you rig it?
heayje, to each his own. be safe.
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frodolf
Dec 13, 2006, 7:40 PM
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On aid I think it's just stupid to not have a BU. Aid is (enjoyable) clusterf#%k per definition, and a knot extra (that can save your life) isn't going to ruin your day. If I'm not mistaken, the question was up on this forum not long ago. That BU had saved same guys life on Mescalito (I think).
On free (and I'm probably to be thought of as a rookie in some peoples mighty company), I only tie a "feel-good-BU" in the end of the rope (to my harness). The reason for this is that it sucks to be halted in the middle of a crux just to re-tie the knot. And being tied in the end of the rope feels comforting AND can save my life (if I fall at the end of the pitch and the grigri doesn't work). My (little) experience tells me that it's more likely that I will fall if I have to stop and re-tie every now and then, and in whatever way you look at it, falling is what's dangerous.
But seriously, don't take my word for it: find out what works for you. Think carefully, listen to a lot of experienced people, test it out in a safe inviroment. Test it a lot(!) before doing anything "for real".
Peace
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