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Help me rate an aid climb
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jgivens


Dec 14, 2006, 3:59 AM
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Help me rate an aid climb
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I did very little aid climbing in the States, so I have no basis for US aid ratings. I am currently living in Romania, and in my area their version of 'trad' is doing routes mostly free, and aiding the difficult sections (they call it 'classic'). So, I put up a new 'classic' line the other day, up a discontinuous crack system (solo, with a Silent Partner) The free moves in the crack I protected with nuts and cams, and went at around 5.10. The other half of the climbing, up the mostly blank sections, was aid, done by hooking small water pockets and lips, and the occasional #1 BD stopper. There were sections of up to four solid hook moves in a row, above marginal pro. How would you rate this? A1 or A2? I have no idea...


microbarn


Dec 14, 2006, 4:17 AM
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Re: [jgivens] Help me rate an aid climb [In reply to]
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Sorry, I can't answer your question, but your post brought up a question. In your "classic" style, do you use aiders, or is there some way you use hooks without aiders?


jgivens


Dec 14, 2006, 5:09 AM
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microbarn wrote:
In your "classic" style, do you use aiders, or is there some way you use hooks without aiders?

Yes, we use aiders, standard setup, for the most part. Though most of the time you are switching back and forth between aid and free frequently, so its easier to just hang the aiders from the hook,without connecting it to your harness with a daisy or whatever. Most of the aid moves on existing 'classic' routes are off of fixed pins, per the style of the area.


mchristie


Dec 14, 2006, 6:08 AM
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four hook moves in a row ovr marginal gear would be pushing into the A2+/ A3 range I would guess. It is hard to rate something without being there. also, why no daisys on the hooks? if that hook blows then say goodbye to your hook and aiders.


microbarn


Dec 14, 2006, 6:42 AM
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mchristie wrote:
why no daisys on the hooks?
If I am interpreting him correctly, he is only implying that he isn't putting his weight on the piece via his harness. He didn't rule out connecting the aiders to him in case he drops them.


jgivens


Dec 14, 2006, 6:46 AM
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mchristie wrote:
...also, why no daisys on the hooks? if that hook blows then say goodbye to your hook and aiders.
I know, it would suck a lot, and I know that I should connect them in some way to my harness. When we are on longer climbs, I do use a daisy. On this particular route (limestone), the water pockets were deep and solid, not delicate dime edges. I was sure they wouldnt blow. I know using a daisy is a habit I need to get used to.


lambone


Dec 14, 2006, 12:50 PM
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4 hook moves to #1 stopper sounds like A2 to me. However, if the hooks were bad, or the stoppers not capable of holding a fall, it'd probably be A3.

Hard to say without seeing it, it all depends on teh quality of placements.


jgivens


Dec 15, 2006, 3:09 AM
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All the hook placements were solid, though the #1 stopper probably wouldnt have held a hard fall. So...Im guessing A2, based on everyones input. Thanks!


stymingersfink


Dec 16, 2006, 1:41 AM
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It's ALL A1.... till ya fall!Wink

Though in your case, maybe C2-ish?


mchristie


Dec 18, 2006, 7:36 AM
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stymingersfink wrote:
It's ALL A1.... till ya fall!Wink


Aint that the truth!!!!!


ptpp


Nov 1, 2007, 6:23 PM
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Well, I'll try not to sound too anal, but these days, it's not an "A" aid rating, but rather a "C" aid rating because you are climbing clean [apparently]. "A" aid ratings are used where you have to hammer stuff, like pins and heads. If the hammered stuff is fixed, it might be referred to as C_F [ex. C3F]

4 hook moves and a #1 BD stopper sounds a bit stiffer than C2 to me. After you do four dodgy moves, are you back onto rock solid pro? Or more hooks? If you blow it and fall, are you going to hit any ledges? If there is danger of hitting stuff when you fall, you're talking C3 for sure. Also C3 if you're getting onto more hooks.

Note: McTopo books sometimes call A3 sections above a bad ledge fall as A3R [R for runout] but I think that's silly. It should be A3+ or A4, even if the fall isn't that far onto a ledge.

I agree with Steve Grossman the other day over at McTopo that John Middendorf's "definitions" of aid ratings on his bigwalls.com website, which John did in good faith back in the early 90's, have kind of buggered up the whole aid rating system and led to a lot of confusion. I think I "get it" now, but it's taken a lot of walls to figure it out.

So I will rant about an aid rating, and then Kate will bitch and yell at me and tell me I'm wrong anyway, so I can't win! Girls, sheesh.

Somehow, A3 sounds a lot more bitchin' than C3, doesn't it? I think that's cuz a lot of formerly proud El Cap nailups - things like Zodiac, Mescalito and the Trip - that used to be legit A3, are now A2 or perhaps C3F when you are climbing long strings of fixed manky heads.

Didn't our ersthile buddy Spike [aka Richard] have a website that was www.c3f.com? You still around Richard? Have you learned how to use a funkness device yet? Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! [Richard pinged himself in the forehead pretty good funking out a pin for me on Lunar Eclipse I think it was]


dirko


Nov 1, 2007, 7:03 PM
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In reply to:
I am currently living in Romania, and in my area their version of 'trad' is doing routes mostly free, and aiding the difficult sections (they call it 'classic').

This thread is awesome. Viva le classique! ("Classic" is the only kind of climbing I really know of...)

Sounds like god's own A2 to me. Keep up the good work!


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