|
jgivens
Dec 14, 2006, 11:59 AM
Post #1 of 12
(2630 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2006
Posts: 89
|
I did very little aid climbing in the States, so I have no basis for US aid ratings. I am currently living in Romania, and in my area their version of 'trad' is doing routes mostly free, and aiding the difficult sections (they call it 'classic'). So, I put up a new 'classic' line the other day, up a discontinuous crack system (solo, with a Silent Partner) The free moves in the crack I protected with nuts and cams, and went at around 5.10. The other half of the climbing, up the mostly blank sections, was aid, done by hooking small water pockets and lips, and the occasional #1 BD stopper. There were sections of up to four solid hook moves in a row, above marginal pro. How would you rate this? A1 or A2? I have no idea...
|
|
|
|
|
microbarn
Dec 14, 2006, 12:17 PM
Post #2 of 12
(2624 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2004
Posts: 5920
|
Sorry, I can't answer your question, but your post brought up a question. In your "classic" style, do you use aiders, or is there some way you use hooks without aiders?
|
|
|
|
|
jgivens
Dec 14, 2006, 1:09 PM
Post #3 of 12
(2613 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2006
Posts: 89
|
microbarn wrote: In your "classic" style, do you use aiders, or is there some way you use hooks without aiders? Yes, we use aiders, standard setup, for the most part. Though most of the time you are switching back and forth between aid and free frequently, so its easier to just hang the aiders from the hook,without connecting it to your harness with a daisy or whatever. Most of the aid moves on existing 'classic' routes are off of fixed pins, per the style of the area.
|
|
|
|
|
mchristie
Dec 14, 2006, 2:08 PM
Post #4 of 12
(2596 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2006
Posts: 51
|
four hook moves in a row ovr marginal gear would be pushing into the A2+/ A3 range I would guess. It is hard to rate something without being there. also, why no daisys on the hooks? if that hook blows then say goodbye to your hook and aiders.
|
|
|
|
|
microbarn
Dec 14, 2006, 2:42 PM
Post #5 of 12
(2576 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2004
Posts: 5920
|
mchristie wrote: why no daisys on the hooks? If I am interpreting him correctly, he is only implying that he isn't putting his weight on the piece via his harness. He didn't rule out connecting the aiders to him in case he drops them.
|
|
|
|
|
jgivens
Dec 14, 2006, 2:46 PM
Post #6 of 12
(2573 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2006
Posts: 89
|
mchristie wrote: ...also, why no daisys on the hooks? if that hook blows then say goodbye to your hook and aiders. I know, it would suck a lot, and I know that I should connect them in some way to my harness. When we are on longer climbs, I do use a daisy. On this particular route (limestone), the water pockets were deep and solid, not delicate dime edges. I was sure they wouldnt blow. I know using a daisy is a habit I need to get used to.
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Dec 14, 2006, 8:50 PM
Post #7 of 12
(2525 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
4 hook moves to #1 stopper sounds like A2 to me. However, if the hooks were bad, or the stoppers not capable of holding a fall, it'd probably be A3. Hard to say without seeing it, it all depends on teh quality of placements.
|
|
|
|
|
jgivens
Dec 15, 2006, 11:09 AM
Post #8 of 12
(2476 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2006
Posts: 89
|
All the hook placements were solid, though the #1 stopper probably wouldnt have held a hard fall. So...Im guessing A2, based on everyones input. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Dec 16, 2006, 9:41 AM
Post #9 of 12
(2440 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
It's ALL A1.... till ya fall! Though in your case, maybe C2-ish?
|
|
|
|
|
mchristie
Dec 18, 2006, 3:36 PM
Post #10 of 12
(2397 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2006
Posts: 51
|
stymingersfink wrote: It's ALL A1.... till ya fall! Aint that the truth!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
ptpp
Nov 2, 2007, 1:23 AM
Post #11 of 12
(2225 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2007
Posts: 38
|
Well, I'll try not to sound too anal, but these days, it's not an "A" aid rating, but rather a "C" aid rating because you are climbing clean [apparently]. "A" aid ratings are used where you have to hammer stuff, like pins and heads. If the hammered stuff is fixed, it might be referred to as C_F [ex. C3F] 4 hook moves and a #1 BD stopper sounds a bit stiffer than C2 to me. After you do four dodgy moves, are you back onto rock solid pro? Or more hooks? If you blow it and fall, are you going to hit any ledges? If there is danger of hitting stuff when you fall, you're talking C3 for sure. Also C3 if you're getting onto more hooks. Note: McTopo books sometimes call A3 sections above a bad ledge fall as A3R [R for runout] but I think that's silly. It should be A3+ or A4, even if the fall isn't that far onto a ledge. I agree with Steve Grossman the other day over at McTopo that John Middendorf's "definitions" of aid ratings on his bigwalls.com website, which John did in good faith back in the early 90's, have kind of buggered up the whole aid rating system and led to a lot of confusion. I think I "get it" now, but it's taken a lot of walls to figure it out. So I will rant about an aid rating, and then Kate will bitch and yell at me and tell me I'm wrong anyway, so I can't win! Girls, sheesh. Somehow, A3 sounds a lot more bitchin' than C3, doesn't it? I think that's cuz a lot of formerly proud El Cap nailups - things like Zodiac, Mescalito and the Trip - that used to be legit A3, are now A2 or perhaps C3F when you are climbing long strings of fixed manky heads. Didn't our ersthile buddy Spike [aka Richard] have a website that was www.c3f.com? You still around Richard? Have you learned how to use a funkness device yet? Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! [Richard pinged himself in the forehead pretty good funking out a pin for me on Lunar Eclipse I think it was]
|
|
|
|
|
dirko
Nov 2, 2007, 2:03 AM
Post #12 of 12
(2205 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 374
|
In reply to: I am currently living in Romania, and in my area their version of 'trad' is doing routes mostly free, and aiding the difficult sections (they call it 'classic'). This thread is awesome. Viva le classique! ("Classic" is the only kind of climbing I really know of...) Sounds like god's own A2 to me. Keep up the good work!
|
|
|
|
|
|