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worldonastrng
Dec 9, 2006, 5:34 AM
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Registered: Nov 22, 2005
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So, I'm beginning the search for a 2nd rope. I need a rope, I decided, for two reason. I have one currently, and would like a second for double rope raps, and ALSO the old rope is getting some fuzziness and also has a few darker looking spots. SO I want to slowly phase this old rope out and replace it for leading but keep it for rapping and maybe some TRing. The old rope is 9.8.
Question #1 I want a rope that resists fraying well BUT I can't handle a rope that is too stiff. Are these two qualities mutually exclusive?
QUestion #2 For rapping, is it generally better to have two ropes the same diameter? I know that the EDK needs same diameter, but there are other knots to use. This could be a problem because I know that I want a thicker rope this time.
Question #3 Any recommendations on ropes considering these qualities along with bi-color, 60m, dry?
Thank you for spending your precious internet time on my post! I searched the archive for about half and hour before posting, fyi.
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punk_rocker333
Dec 9, 2006, 6:33 AM
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This rope has good durability for its width (9.9mm). I used it on granite slabs for half the summer almost daily and it hasn't started fraying yet. Not stiff, but definitley not as floppy as Beal ropes. Also has the bi-pattern option.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/Detailed/3756.html
Also, this rope is great. The price is right and it has lasted me about 2 years with minimal fraying and lots of use on infamous slab rappels. I'd reccomend it if you want a thicker rope. No bi pattern though.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/Detailed/2418.html
Variable rope diameters make a little bit of difference if they are vastly different in size, but I'd say it wouldn't matter unless it's over .4 mm. Also, width depends a lot on manufacturer. Beal's 10.3 and Edelweis' 10.3 are quite different. Best bet is to look at the rope that you want to buy in person. I have rapped with the euro death knot on ropes as much as .5mm in difference and am still alive so I wouldn't say it makes too much difference. Hope this helps. As you can probably tell, I'm biased towards Edelweiss ropes because they're the only ones I own and I get a pro deal on them.
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jt512
Dec 10, 2006, 5:00 AM
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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worldonastrng wrote: QUestion #2 For rapping, is it generally better to have two ropes the same diameter? I know that the EDK needs same diameter, but there are other knots to use. This could be a problem because I know that I want a thicker rope this time.
The EDK does not require same-diameter ropes, nor does a double fisherman's. Not sure about other knots.
When the ropes are of unequal diameter, the skinnier rope will want to move through the rap device faster than the fatter rope. When both your ropes are lead ropes, but of unequal diameter, you, therefore, usually should put the knot on the small-rope side of the anchor (but make sure the knot cannot get pulled into the anchor and get stuck). If your skinny rope is too skinny to lead on as a single rope, your choice of knot placement is more complicated. One consideration is that if your ropes get stuck while you are pulling them, and you have to relead the pitch to free the rope, you would prefer to do so on the fat rope. For fuller discussions of rappel considerations when using unequal diameter ropes search the rec.climbing newsgroup (archives accessible via groups.google.com).
Jay
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percious
Dec 11, 2006, 2:51 PM
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Registered: May 19, 2005
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punk_rocker333 wrote: This rope has good durability for its width (9.9mm). I used it on granite slabs for half the summer almost daily and it hasn't started fraying yet. Not stiff, but definitley not as floppy as Beal ropes. Also has the bi-pattern option. http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/Detailed/3756.html Also, this rope is great. The price is right and it has lasted me about 2 years with minimal fraying and lots of use on infamous slab rappels. I'd reccomend it if you want a thicker rope. No bi pattern though. http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/Detailed/2418.html Variable rope diameters make a little bit of difference if they are vastly different in size, but I'd say it wouldn't matter unless it's over .4 mm. Also, width depends a lot on manufacturer. Beal's 10.3 and Edelweis' 10.3 are quite different. Best bet is to look at the rope that you want to buy in person. I have rapped with the euro death knot on ropes as much as .5mm in difference and am still alive so I wouldn't say it makes too much difference. Hope this helps. As you can probably tell, I'm biased towards Edelweiss ropes because they're the only ones I own and I get a pro deal on them.
I have experience with both of these ropes. The axis I have been using for over a year as my primary top-rope. It has a super soft catch, but it is a little kinky out-of-the-box. I have used it on a number of leads, but I prefer my bluewater dominator because it is more supple, but It has started to frey a bit after 1 season of weekly/bi-weekly use.
My climbing partner purchased the on-sight at the beginning of the climbing season, and we used it a bunch because it is 70 meters and allowed us to combine pitches pretty readily. I liked the bi-color pattern because it was a good way to know how far you had to go, especially when you are combining pitches. The rope is not supple at all however, and it did kink at the most inopportune times. Like the axis, it has a nice catch.
-percious
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tallmark515
Dec 16, 2006, 5:28 AM
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Registered: Oct 2, 2006
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keep this in mind:
The dry coating helps to protect the sheath of the rope from fraying, but makes the rope stiffer.
Dude, why are you using a 9.8mm rope? Are you mountaineering? If you sport or trad get a fatter rope 10-10.5, it'll last longer and it's safer.
Also, why are you using an EDK? Use a double or triple fishermans knot. The EDK compromises the strength of the rope a LOT because of the way that the ropes come out of the knot, they should not bend, they should come straight out.
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wanlessrm
Dec 16, 2006, 5:54 AM
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Registered: Jul 29, 2002
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Why use the EDK you ask. It pulls flat against the rock and has a much better chance of not getting stuck when pulling the rope.
Do a search and you'll find almost everyone uses the EDK!
Why use a 9.8mm rope?
Why not. Its a great size rope and even better if your doing longer pitches that you need two ropes to rap from.
The EDK compromises the strength of the rope. What?
I don't think I'll listen to anything tallmark515 has to say.
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tallmark515
Dec 16, 2006, 6:30 AM
Post #7 of 10
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wanlessrm:
if you want durability, go for a thicker rope is all im saying.
9.8 Fine for the way down, but for the way up I'll stick with my 10+.
The EDK does compromise the strength of the rope, as do ALL knots, test my theory with a unknotted piece of twine, tie one end down and the other in your hand and pull, now try the same thing with a knotted piece of twine, watch which one breaks first. Now do the same test with a fishermans vs a EDK. Don't take my word for it, bserve the results yourself. But on the other hand, when it comes to rappelling I guess your not putting a lot of stress on the rope (more of an issue with slings), but there are two other issues with flat-knots. One is that the knot can roll or flip mid rappell can cause you even more of a headache than a fishermans and lastly the knot is MUCH more prone to slipping loose than a fishermans or other variations.
-m
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blazesod
Dec 16, 2006, 7:39 AM
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Registered: Apr 27, 2002
Posts: 249
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Q 1: No, they do not have to be
Q 2: Not sure if it is better, but I keep mine close to the same size. Different colors, different companies but still in the 10 to 11 mm range.
Q 3: I own ropes from 3 different makers and recommend a Sterling Marathon above anything else I have climbed on. It is like my soul-mate in a rope. Great durability, flexible, good price and fair weight.
Cheers,
Dave :)
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wanlessrm
Dec 16, 2006, 4:05 PM
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Registered: Jul 29, 2002
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Post: The EDK IS THE BEST KNOT to join two ropes for a double rappel. Just be sure to have 12" tails. PERIOD !!! It is low profile, unties easily, and will not snag on a ledge, as it will always roll to the position of least resistance.
There have been NO accidents with this knot. The accident you are reffering to was not the EDK, it was a figure 8 with both ends facing the same direction.
I, and many others, including guides, use this knot exclusively.
rrrADAM
Did you do a search of the EDK KNOT!
I did and everyone is on the same page with this knot.
Everything you read on this site is not always true. New climbers often post things they hear and are not right. This is a fact.
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tallmark515
Dec 17, 2006, 3:10 AM
Post #10 of 10
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Registered: Oct 2, 2006
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hmm, wel then maybe i'll have to look more into it then.
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