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sky7high
Dec 15, 2006, 9:53 PM
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I'm buying a new rack, but I don't know if I should get one (maybe even two) cam or use the money to buy hexes and/or tricams
Could any of you guys help me out?
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coastal_climber
Dec 15, 2006, 10:04 PM
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What and where are you going to be climbing?
>Cam
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sweetchuck
Dec 15, 2006, 10:15 PM
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Well, with one cam you'd have a rack that rivaled my 2 year old niece!
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kmc
Dec 15, 2006, 10:18 PM
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I have a set of hexes. They sit in my closet everytime I go climbing. Eventually, even if you get hexes now, you will get cams. When you do, you will probably not want to carry a set of cams and a set of hexes, so you will leave those behing too.
Whenever friends looking to build up a rack ask me what to get, or should I get the cheaper cams instead of these cams that I really want I always tell them the same thing. Place many different types, see what you like. Then, buy that. If you buy other cams first b/c they are cheaper, you would have been much better off just buying the other ones to begin with. I would say that same logic applies to hexes as well.
And if you do decide to buy cams, it may be wise to save up and buy them all at once. You can usually save a little green when you do it that way.
Good luck.
~Kevin
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herbaltee
Dec 15, 2006, 10:18 PM
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As said above about where and what I would like to add what do you already have?
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jeremy11
Dec 16, 2006, 1:22 AM
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don't do it!! get out while you can!! trad climbing is hard, scary, expensive, and dangerous!! stick to watching bouldering videos!!
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colotopian
Dec 16, 2006, 11:18 PM
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cams
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camerona91
Dec 16, 2006, 11:35 PM
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With a set of hexes you can do some easier leads. Then you also have multiple pieces in the same size when you do buy cams. Many (maybe most) climbs have places for more than one of each size. Hexes are a cheap and easy way to accomodate these. They are good for alpine climbing as well (as you can pound them in if there is ice).
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bodyboarder
Dec 16, 2006, 11:38 PM
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just spend the next year aquiring cams and following others cause you're just gonna end up buying cams in the long run.
Jason
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stymingersfink
Dec 17, 2006, 1:04 AM
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assuming that you have already:
aquired a set and a half of stoppers (doubles in 4-10 at least) and feel confident in placing them properly... while on the ground try stacking them to increase the range of placement options, then do it on the sharp end
I would then suggest that you:
pick up a set of hexes 1-7 (or so... larger if you climb fist cracks) and see how much your range has increased.
Practice stacking these tools as well, with each other and with your stoppers. They are inexpensive relative to cams, so using one as a bail piece is not such a hit on your wallet.
Developing your ability to place passive pro will reap you great rewards in the future, as it developes your eye for possible protection locations/schemes. It will require that you hone this craft on more moderate routes, which often will provide more frequent stances to place gear from.
As you become confident in your nutcraft, try to discern what sizes you have the most difficulty protecting. This should be the cam size you aquire first.
Revel in your gear-whore-dom, marvel at sending climbs too difficult to protect with passive gear, develope your climbing skills and techniques.
Now, go back to those climbs where you plug cams in and see if you can protect it entirely with passive gear.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Dec 17, 2006, 1:53 AM)
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rocknrone
Dec 17, 2006, 1:06 AM
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Best bet would be to hook up with someone who has a rack already. Climb with them and get the feel for the cams they have.
I have a rack of hexes and a double rack of BD's. I don't use the hexes much, the smaller ones here and there. I can climb harder routes with just cams, no fumbling around. Punch and go.
I really like tricams. Size .5, 1, 1.5, and 2. Larger than that I don't have a use for them. If your itching to get some gear just get some tricams and practice with them first. They take more practice than a cam. Save up your money and get a whole set of cams to save money.
If all else fails, there is always Ebay.
(This post was edited by rocknrone on Dec 17, 2006, 1:08 AM)
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brianri
Dec 17, 2006, 1:14 AM
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As someone else asked and I didn't see a response to...where are you going to climb? Tri-cams are invaluable in the Gunks where you have a lot of horizontal cracks. They are probably not of much use in Indian Creek where you have endless parallel vertical cracks. In general I would go with active cams and the four smallest tri-cams and skip the hexes.
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alexmac
Dec 17, 2006, 2:05 AM
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I'd have to agree with both stymingersfink and rocknrone, get passive gear and second for someone with a full rack ( a few different people, with different gear).
My advice is don't cheap out, if your going to by "good for now" type of gear, its only going to sit a box a few years later when you replace with that always wanted pieces.
(This post was edited by alexmac on Dec 17, 2006, 2:06 AM)
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musicman1586
Dec 17, 2006, 2:22 AM
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Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams.
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rocknrone
Dec 17, 2006, 2:33 AM
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musicman1586 wrote: Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams.
Why?
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wanlessrm
Dec 17, 2006, 2:51 AM
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Its the same attitude of learn how to use a hammer before you learn how to use a nail gun. Its just learning the fundamentals of placing pro.
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alexmac
Dec 17, 2006, 4:42 AM
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rocknrone wrote: musicman1586 wrote: Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams. Why?
You may not have enough cams for the placement, you may want to save your last cam for a know placement at the crux, you may not yet have enough cams period.
A set of BD nuts (10) is 70 bucks, BD wire hexs are 9 to 15 dollars each, toss in a few tri cams (14 to 25) . 10 nuts, 5 hex, 3 tri cams , lets just say 170 bucks. Not bad for a starter rack for single pitch climb (other gear you need as well slings, belay device etc).
For the price of three C4 cams (2 1's and a 2) 65x3 = 195 bucks.
Prices vary somewhat and Canadian dollar but you get the idea.
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jt512
Dec 17, 2006, 5:24 AM
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alexmac wrote: rocknrone wrote: musicman1586 wrote: Get hexes, learn to use passive pro well, don't become dependent on cams. Why? You may not have enough cams for the placement, you may want to save your last cam for a know placement at the crux, you may not yet have enough cams period. A set of BD nuts (10) is 70 bucks, BD wire hexs are 9 to 15 dollars each, toss in a few tri cams (14 to 25) . 10 nuts, 5 hex, 3 tri cams , lets just say 170 bucks. Not bad for a starter rack for single pitch climb (other gear you need as well slings, belay device etc). For the price of three C4 cams (2 1's and a 2) 65x3 = 195 bucks. Prices vary somewhat and Canadian dollar but you get the idea.
Cams are so much easier to place and more versatile than hexes, that few experienced climbers carry them anymore, except for alpine climbing where a minimal rack is needed. For run-of-the-mill trad climbing the only reason to buy hexes is because you can't afford a second set of cams. Once you can, your hexes will just collect dust in your garage.
Jay
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trenchdigger
Dec 17, 2006, 5:38 AM
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wanlessrm wrote: Its the same attitude of learn how to use a hammer before you learn how to use a nail gun. Its just learning the fundamentals of placing pro.
This is trophy worthy. Someone want to drop one here for me?
I couldn't agree more. Yes, hexes are harder to place than cams. I rarely use mine anymore except when I want to climb as light as possible or just feel like climbing on all passive gear (it definitely adds a little challenge). But the skills you learn by forcing yourself to climb on just nuts and hexes carrys over to finding good active placements.
If you're building a rack on a budget and you're just learning to climb trad, get a set of nuts, then a set of hexes. Climb on that for a while and you'll learn quickly what you'll want to buy next. From there it's a slippery slope into gear whoredom. Enjoy...
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keithlester
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Dec 17, 2006, 9:14 AM
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Buy the most expensive cams you can afford
Then get bored with climbing because you have all the best gear and still dont know how to use it.
Then send your cams to me for recycling. 
Edited because I can't spel
(This post was edited by keithlester on Dec 17, 2006, 9:15 AM)
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climbingaggie03
Dec 17, 2006, 4:44 PM
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Depending on where you're climbing, I'd buy cams if you can afford them (camalots, metolious, or trango flex cams) tri-cams if you can't afford cams. Tricams have more range than hexes and I think you'll keep using them after you have cams, my hexes are just sitting around collecting dust, in fact I'll sell mine to you if you want some. PM me.
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sky7high
Dec 17, 2006, 4:52 PM
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Thanks a lot for your responses
Someone asked about the type of cracks. There's smooth vertical parallel cracks and also some rough cracks that are a little bit inclined. The width ranges from large fingers to chimeneys.
The thing is, I want to start leading easy single-pitch routes with my own gear as soon as I can, since my mentor is not always there. I have practiced placing pro for quite a while now, and I feel confident placing nuts and cams.
My reasons for wanting cams:
They are much more versatile
Easier to place-don't get too tired if on a lousy stance
I have more experience placing them
My reasons for wanting hexes/tricams:
I could get a lot more, which means I can have enough for climbing soon
I want to get better at placing passive pro
With more gear, I can protect more types of cracks
Thanks again.
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rocknrone
Dec 17, 2006, 6:20 PM
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"You may not have enough cams for the placement, you may want to save your last cam for a know placement at the crux, you may not yet have enough cams period".
Good point. I've been in that situation more than once. I popped in the nuts I had to save the cams for the crux or the upper sections when I know I'm gonna be spent. It's a good practice, sometimes I've saved cams for something above and wound up finishing the climb without placing them. Either way a knowledge of nut placement is just as critical as knowledge of cam placement.
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gochubug
Dec 17, 2006, 8:01 PM
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I have, and use, all three.
Just about everyone loves cams and tcu's and loads their rack up with them.
Hexes are losing ground in popularity, but are still useful for reasons others have given.
Tricams are sort of controversial: there are the tricam lovers and the tricam haters. Doesn't seem to be much middle ground. I'm in the former camp. Once you get used to them and learn how to place (and remove!) them efficiently, you'll find that tricams will work in places where nothing much else does the job, especially pockets. I always have a couple tricams on my rack.
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sky7high
Dec 17, 2006, 9:11 PM
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gochubug wrote: I have, and use, all three.
Of course they can all be useful; eventually, I'll get all three, but the question here is what should I buy first
Thanks
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