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kane_schutzman


Jan 5, 2007, 10:15 PM
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Clothing Choices
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I am having trouble on selecting clothing. Could someone point me in the right direction? What I want to do is just purchase everything that I may need for mountaineering, socks, underwear...everything. I especially need help in the lower section. Features that I would like are full zip sides to make removal easier...but then again I have never done this before so I going of what you say


rendog


Jan 6, 2007, 9:55 AM
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kane_schutzman wrote:
I am having trouble on selecting clothing. Could someone point me in the right direction? What I want to do is just purchase everything that I may need for mountaineering, socks, underwear...everything. I especially need help in the lower section. Features that I would like are full zip sides to make removal easier...but then again I have never done this before so I going of what you say

make sure they fit and are comfortable. just like a pair of climbing shoes. go in, pull as many different sets of clothes off the rack, try everything on.

try on soft shells, hard shells, if they've got it, put it on. if they don't have it go smewhere that does have it and try it on there.

every manufacturer fits a bit differently, so diversify as much as you can.


dalfollo


Jan 6, 2007, 12:58 PM
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While you are trying things on, make note of the manufacturer and size, so if you bump into sales or see something on eBay you will know how it fits.

For me Mountain Hardwear can run small, TNF-like I expect...don't be afraid to mix manufactuers: I like the MH pants but not the TNF one per se....consider going through ebay for some of the things you get, there are a lot of folks selling gear they only used once or twice at quite a savings....some have children, and decide to sell everything.

Go out to some of the websites for guides (AAI, RMI, etc) and search for their gear lists...they will tell you want they recommend and the various makes/models that they specifically like.

Christmas is over, expect to see some decent sales...make sure your jacket will fit over the bulk you may have under it...make sure the jacket still fits even without that bulk.

HTH


chrisb


Jan 6, 2007, 8:33 PM
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Kane,

Try on everything, no matter how cheap and cool it may look online. You'll save yourself a ton of frustration if you make sure you want what you buy before you buy it.

Figuring out what you want, on the other hand, can be a long, multi-season process. Talk with people whose opinions/experience you trust and get their feedback. Try on other poeple's stuff, if your sizes are similar. Go to stores and spend time trying stuff on, layering, and figuring out what works for you. Writing down the sizes was a good suggestion (then the sometimes-sweet online deals will be useful to you).

I think above all, be realistic about what you're going to be doing--don't buy the $150 Denali-ready mitts if you're not going to be in those conditions (and learn to ignore that voice in your head that says, "Well, I might not need them this season but I'm hoping to go big in a few years and it's such a good deal...").

Finally, I wouldn't worry too much about full side zip pants. Remember that you'll probably be wearing full gaiters and/or crampons, which will make layering your legs a pain, even with the full zips. I would say softshell pants or silkweight bottoms and hardshell pants (with some venting, of course) should set you fine. Your legs will generate tremendous heat and you'll have a much easier/efficient time layering with your upper body.

Try everything on. Good luck,

chris


jeremy11


Jan 7, 2007, 12:11 PM
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http://www.paramo.co.uk
incredible.


kixx


Jan 9, 2007, 7:36 PM
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There are som many variables here. Let me know what your interested in (what type of climbing and where) and I can tell you what most experienced people use and how they use it.


trebork2
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Jan 10, 2007, 2:05 AM
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Go try everything on locally then watch ebay and surf the internet for deals and you will be money ahead bigtime!


kane_schutzman


Jan 12, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Alright guys,

I have never climbed Alpine before, and in reality its going to be about 2 months before school lets me get away. The clothing I purchase now, will be used on Rainier, Hood, Mt. Washington, and other smaller US Mountains. So I have looked at some videos, and read alot actually. The thing is I live in flat lands Louisiana, and to be honest I don't think anyone here carrys this type of clothing. I guess what I am going to do is be ordering from online sites that accept returns.... Kixx, tell me what I need. Does anyone have an opinion on the Patagonia R2 Fleece Pullover BodyRug?


(This post was edited by kane_schutzman on Jan 12, 2007, 7:56 PM)


sidepull


Jan 12, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Don't get me wrong, the Patagonia R2 is a great piece of clothing, but I wouldn't start my closet of Alpine gear with that piece (unless you're getting a great deal, in that case spend away!).

I think you need to think about a system of clothing and then decide what you want from there. In other words, what layers do you want and how will you use them? The difficulty is that there are so many pieces of clothing for so many specific situations that it's become harder to figure out how to use say 3 pieces of clothing at once.

For example, instead of the R2 you might want a softshell - this can provide windprotection and some insulation. If it's really pouring you might cover this with a good hardshell and if it's really cold you might go softshell, down, hardshell. That's one system - there are lots of other permutations. Do you have one in mind already?


kane_schutzman


Jan 12, 2007, 8:11 PM
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Hell man, I can't even positively tell you the difference between a softshell and fleece. I would be getting it for 63. Your right about there being so many choices, plus what is the difference between polartech fleece and just fleece, its all so confusing.Since price is no object when it comes to clothing, I just want the best system I can get.

For example,
These are the three bases, what works best where?I dont think I am explaining this very well
Base layer,

Mid,

Top


kane_schutzman


Jan 12, 2007, 11:39 PM
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Well, I think I ll try two different things for a base layer, first I am going to buy http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Smartwool/idesc/Lightweight+Bottom+%2D+Men%27s+Closeout/Store/MG/item/111202/N/772 and a matching upper, the second thing I ll try is http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/164,14118_Kenyon-Polypropylene-Top-Long-Sleeve-Expedition-Weight-Long-Underwear-For-Men.html and a matching lower...I ll see what I like best.. After reading alot, this seems to be a good choice right? Merino Wool Vs. Polywhatever its late I am going to bed


sumo


Jan 13, 2007, 12:46 AM
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http://www.mountaingear.com/...MG/item/111202/N/772
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/...derwear-For-Men.html

What size are you?
I may have a few extra items around

If you can't try on the merchandise before you buy I would suggest purchasing it from places that have a easy return policy or ask around about how a particular iitem fits.



S


sidepull


Jan 13, 2007, 6:27 AM
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Kane, read these:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/...ices/alpinegear.html

http://www.backcountry.com/...n-the-mountains.html

http://www.swissmountainguide.com/equipment.html


rendog


Jan 13, 2007, 1:42 PM
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good sites man

thumbs up!


ryanb


Jan 13, 2007, 4:05 PM
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gear store that knows what they are talking about, though there stuff is more aimed at the light and fast crowd (colin hailey works there when he is in town):

http://www.promountainsports.com/upk.shtml

http://www.promountainsports.com/clothing.shtml

This site also has some good articles especially about shoft shells:

http://www.psychovertical.com/

The basic idea is some breathable clothed to climb in (merino wool longunderwear, softshells, windshirts) and soem clothes for warmth when not climbing (poofy coat, sleeping bag) and a hardhshell (gortex raincoat).

It sucks to climb in gortex (you sweat inside) so most people stick with the softshell (weather resistant not proof) when they are moveing these days and put the other stuff on at rests or in really bad weather.

If you are starting with rainear wait till you are up here in seattle and go to feathered freinds or pro mountain sports.


kixx


Jan 13, 2007, 7:54 PM
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Kane, first thing to do is read this (best article I've seen written on this exact subject) http://www.psychovertical.com/?theartofnotsuffering

Second, understand that waterproof/breathables are not waterproof or breathable, and no piece is a do all miracle piece. You have to learn how to make the right combinations work for you. I have my own system dialed in with a few custom made pieces and I am never (yes, never) uncomfortable in the mountains.

Please read Andy's article at psychovertical (above link) and make sure you understand it before you go out and try to use your new systems.

Reccomendations:

Base - Patagonia light capalene or some other lightweight polypropelene (synthetic base layer), or silk blend; NO COTTON

Base2 - Wool layer but only specific types (smarthool or marino wool). Ice Breakers Wool is as good as it gets, Smartwool is a close second.

*note that in warmer conditions (down to 20F) I only wear the wool layer.

On top of this I use a "breathable shell" somewhat like a soft shell. As long as I am moving, this system, up to this point, will take me to some very cold temps and high winds (because I am not sweating). Any of the over priced soft shells out there (you need tops and bottoms) will achieve this but the best is: http://www.wildthingsgear.com/guide_jacket.html
Or better yet you could order custom shells from meWink Best fit, near perfect alpine performance, less than perfect price.

Now, when you stop moving in the cold your whole game changes. Now you need to decide if you want Primaloft or down jackets and pants for insulation. Primaloft works when wet, down makes your situation much worse when it gets wet. Choose based on this criteria and where you will go since they both weigh about the same. For down go to Feathered Friends and for Primaloft go to Wild Things. I have the Wild Things EP jacket and pant with a Feathered Friends Volant down jacket. I cary both and when It gets too cold the EP layer works awesome, and when I come to a complete stop (belay or whatever) the Volant down is the ticket.

All this must be kept within arms length in the top load part of your pack. Otherwise you will be too lazy to dig it out and will quickly become cold.

There are a few more custom made tricks I use like fleece arm and ankle bands, bomber hat with brim, custom made mitts, etc. (way better than anything commercially made)

You'll get it figured out but not on the first try (no matter how much money you spend) - sorry, just not going to happen.


sidepull


Jan 13, 2007, 8:41 PM
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great post. Thanks!


jcrabtree


Jan 13, 2007, 10:01 PM
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I'll second the links to psychovertical.com and promountainsports.com and strongly urge reading of extreme alpinism my Mark Twight. All have REALLY good advice that works...just about everything you have and will read here is said better there...but I'll throw in my $0.02 just for fun:

Personal suggestion (this works REALLY well):

Top:
wear: marmot driclime windshirt (yes that's it, it's a base layer, mid layer and windbreaker all in one)
in pack: gamma MX hoody (or similar but it MUST have a hood) and some very light rain shell like the marmot essence plus a belay jacket if its going to be winter cold (mammut makes a popular one, primaloft is the best fill IMO). Throw a light shirt in case it's too hot for the driclime but don't wear it under the driclime when you go to put that back on.

bottom:
wear:some light softshell pant (schoeller dynamic is good stuff)
in pack:light full side zip rain pant (these should go OVER your gators so water can't get inside your system so yes you do want them to be full side zip...plus, what if you're wearing skis or snowshoes?)
long underwear bottoms if it's going to be cold.

Don't get fooled into buying some crazy expensive feature rich pack! You can really save weight here...again, psychovertical.com...the gear tab, it's really good.

Don't skimp on the boots, try a bunch on but the trango S GTX is pretty sweet and really light.

hardware is very dependent on the route and I'm sure other people will have plenty of suggestions. PM me if you need more help.

to quantify cold...less than 30F.


akicebum


Jan 16, 2007, 11:09 PM
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Fit is everything. I used to buy arc'teryx for that reason, but I have since switched entirely to Patagonia. It costs less and it is guranteed for life. Start at the base, a LW T is essential, follow it up with a MW Zip T. For the base you can go with weights depending on what you are doing. For a shell go with a hardshell of some sort, a soft shell rounds out your arsenal but shouldn't be your go to peice. I am a huge fan of softshell pants and I will very rarely use a hardshell even in pretty wet conditions. Full side zips are nice, but I have only ever used them on insulated pants. A full zip pant will cost more and a crampon will throw that right out the window with one wrong step. Synthetic Belay Jackets are the shit, I have used a DAS for years. As for Boots, limit your choices to La Sportiva, Kayland, Salamon, or Scarpa. After that quality kinda goes out the window. Vasque and Technica both make alright boots, but the performance with Technica isn't on par with the other four mentioned but the price is. Vasque makes a great product, but the snow sticks to the Stealth rubber like glue, they have a wider profile and they have had issues with the shell material. The Vasque Super Alpinist is a good boot if the fit is better than any other. La Sportiva is the industry standard. Good luck be safe.


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