|
wanderlustmd
Jan 9, 2007, 7:41 PM
Post #1 of 31
(925 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
I've been reading a few articles on the search for life on mars, since there is that new idea that we squashed evidence of life with the Viking probe in '76 because it didn't know what to look for....or something like that. Anyway, I got to thinking: Who cares? Not to be a killjoy, but unless I missed something the only life they are potentially discovering is bacteria/primordial soup. That's all well and good and is very important to development and evolution and all that, call me when we find intelligent life....or it finds us. Which is theoretically impossible due to distance. Hooray. Your thoughts.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Jan 9, 2007, 8:14 PM
Post #2 of 31
(906 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
When life is found on other worlds, WORLDS WILL COLLIDE. Didn't you know? DMT
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Jan 9, 2007, 10:42 PM
Post #3 of 31
(881 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
wanderlustmd wrote: I've been reading a few articles on the search for life on mars, since there is that new idea that we squashed evidence of life with the Viking probe in '76 because it didn't know what to look for....or something like that. Anyway, I got to thinking: Who cares? Not to be a killjoy, but unless I missed something the only life they are potentially discovering is bacteria/primordial soup. That's all well and good and is very important to development and evolution and all that, call me when we find intelligent life....or it finds us. Which is theoretically impossible due to distance. Hooray. Your thoughts. Schwarzenegger already found intelligent life on Mars and its far more advanced than here. Chicks have three titty balls there. Unfortunately, they haven't evolved to a point where the third one is on their backs yet (which would be a great feature for slow dancing).
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Jan 9, 2007, 10:48 PM
Post #4 of 31
(878 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
I just hope there's no water up there so that "they" leave us alone, they being the NASA or the astrophysicians or anybody wanting to find ET life.
|
|
|
|
|
c4c
Jan 9, 2007, 11:41 PM
Post #5 of 31
(861 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 1279
|
If there is life on mars then it can evolve and in a couple billion years they may try to invade the earth. Since we are a couple billion years ahead of them in the evolutionary process we should be ok though.
|
|
|
|
|
devils_advocate
Jan 10, 2007, 12:25 AM
Post #6 of 31
(851 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1823
|
c4c wrote: If there is life on mars then it can evolve and in a couple billion years they may try to invade the earth. Since we are a couple billion years ahead of them in the evolutionary process we should be ok though. You obviously don't follow US politics
|
|
|
|
|
carabiner96
Jan 10, 2007, 1:02 AM
Post #7 of 31
(842 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610
|
bwahaha daddy i love you
|
|
|
|
|
kixx
Jan 10, 2007, 1:48 AM
Post #8 of 31
(835 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 178
|
I hear there's great crack climbing on Mars. Trying to get Richard Branson to arrange a Virgin Mars rock climbing tour.
|
|
|
|
|
twaikker
Jan 10, 2007, 5:06 PM
Post #9 of 31
(808 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2005
Posts: 131
|
i agree, with nasa spending billions of dollars to find the remains of what might have been life is fucking stupid. new orleans could have used some of that money, the fight against aids and cancers could use that money and technology, and lastly our school system in the US could have used that money. we have life here that needs help, fuck the notion that bacteria is going to help "our evolutional path" bullshit. its a waste of time, money, and its never going to find shit
|
|
|
|
|
roflcakes
Jan 10, 2007, 5:22 PM
Post #11 of 31
(792 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2007
Posts: 90
|
yeah mars accelerations due to gravity is like, .43 that on earth, I would send the planet in one go. I will get all the FA's in one climb, and name them all "chris sharma is an earth noob 1...ect" LOL!
|
|
|
|
|
frodolf
Jan 10, 2007, 8:40 PM
Post #12 of 31
(774 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2006
Posts: 81
|
twaikker wrote: i agree, with nasa spending billions of dollars to find the remains of what might have been life is fucking stupid. new orleans could have used some of that money, the fight against aids and cancers could use that money and technology, and lastly our school system in the US could have used that money. we have life here that needs help, fuck the notion that bacteria is going to help "our evolutional path" bullshit. its a waste of time, money, and its never going to find shit Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. But I'm not even sure that 'contact' is the goal here. It would be nice just to know that we are not alone. And also, it would make every single religious creation story seem even more improbable, so maybe it would have some uniting effect as well.
|
|
|
|
|
warthog
Jan 10, 2007, 10:25 PM
Post #13 of 31
(754 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 78
|
the whole "NASA wastes money" thing is a waste of time. compare the NASA budget to the rest of government spending. it's a small amount compared to many other things, around 1/2 of 1% of the whole. they spend most of it on paying staff, building things here on earth. it's not like they are shoveling $100 bills out the hatch while on orbit. I would like to know how the amount of money in the NASA budget compares to what is spent on cosmetics, coffee, cars, or other stuff like that. remember there were fish who said that there is no way to survive out there on the land: no flotation, your gills will dry out, too much sunlight, we have problems here in the ocean to solve first, and so on. the need to find out what is on the other side (or the top) of the hill has made humans better.
|
|
|
|
|
veganclimber
Jan 11, 2007, 2:28 AM
Post #14 of 31
(738 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 2775
|
|
|
|
|
|
truello
Jan 11, 2007, 3:02 AM
Post #15 of 31
(728 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2006
Posts: 737
|
A lot of people see it all as wasted money but in reality its discoveries help us every day. Take this site for example: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/everydaylife/index.html Not only have tons of new materials, techniques and ideas leaked into everyday life but who knows what they could someday come across. Maybe those little bacteria on Mars are the cure for cancer. Likely? No. But possible that in the future something could happen from these little dust particles. It's hard to think of future generations sometimes but we're going to need off this planet sooner or later. Exploring our options is a necessary step. Not too mention I can almost guarantee that some of the alloys used in climbing products have had something to do with NASA. So, I say give NASA more money. But honestly only because thats where my paycheck comes from.
|
|
|
|
|
brent_e
Jan 11, 2007, 3:19 AM
Post #16 of 31
(722 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 5111
|
frodolf wrote: Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. they have made some assumptions about life on one of the other planets in a sea under the surface, although i forget which planet it is.
In reply to: But I'm not even sure that 'contact' is the goal here. It would be nice just to know that we are not alone. And also, it would make every single religious creation story seem even more improbable, so maybe it would have some uniting effect as well. why would it be nice to know that we aren't alone??? I think the religious effect it would have would be more dissent between religions! I don't think in general people would see past their beliefs and see the science behind the creation, even if it was laid out for them.
|
|
|
|
|
kachoong
Jan 11, 2007, 3:28 AM
Post #17 of 31
(716 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 15304
|
brent_e wrote: frodolf wrote: Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. they have made some assumptions about life on one of the other planets in a sea under the surface, although i forget which planet it is. I think you mean Saturn's moon Triton. I reckon it'd be cool if they found "life" on another world, but they should indeed leave it where it is. For every organism that provides a cure for our problems here on Earth, I'm sure there would be a thousand that could infect and destroy us.
|
|
|
|
|
brent_e
Jan 11, 2007, 3:33 AM
Post #18 of 31
(714 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 5111
|
kachoong wrote: brent_e wrote: frodolf wrote: Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. they have made some assumptions about life on one of the other planets in a sea under the surface, although i forget which planet it is. I think you mean Saturn's moon Triton. I reckon it'd be cool if they found "life" on another world, but they should indeed leave it where it is. For every organism that provides a cure for our problems here on Earth, I'm sure there would be a thousand that could infect and destroy us. yup, that's the one!!!! and i agree. kind of like that space bacteria that eats....everything. And maybe we would have the same effect on them??? Like europeans and native americans.
|
|
|
|
|
kachoong
Jan 11, 2007, 3:43 AM
Post #19 of 31
(710 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 15304
|
brent_e wrote: kachoong wrote: brent_e wrote: frodolf wrote: Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. they have made some assumptions about life on one of the other planets in a sea under the surface, although i forget which planet it is. I think you mean Saturn's moon Triton. I reckon it'd be cool if they found "life" on another world, but they should indeed leave it where it is. For every organism that provides a cure for our problems here on Earth, I'm sure there would be a thousand that could infect and destroy us. yup, that's the one!!!! and i agree. kind of like that space bacteria that eats....everything. And maybe we would have the same effect on them??? Like europeans and native americans. Unicellular Martians would have a harsh time trying to live here on Earth anyway.... too much water vapour.... they'd over-hydrate in an instant.... unless they were placed in the Atacama or something like that.
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
Jan 11, 2007, 4:43 AM
Post #20 of 31
(707 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
kachoong wrote: brent_e wrote: kachoong wrote: brent_e wrote: frodolf wrote: Of course the money could go to other things, more humane things, but as far as I'm concerned, USA have never been really good at prioritise where the money should go... To the OP. I think it's a good thing. Though I seem to be the only one. Life on Mars means (or at least strongly incicates) that life is something that "just happens" if the conditions are right and unimaginable long time pass by. And that would mean that there are like a zillion planets out there with life on 'em. And if only fraction of those were intelligent life forms then maybe... one day. they have made some assumptions about life on one of the other planets in a sea under the surface, although i forget which planet it is. I think you mean Saturn's moon Triton. I reckon it'd be cool if they found "life" on another world, but they should indeed leave it where it is. For every organism that provides a cure for our problems here on Earth, I'm sure there would be a thousand that could infect and destroy us. yup, that's the one!!!! and i agree. kind of like that space bacteria that eats....everything. And maybe we would have the same effect on them??? Like europeans and native americans. Unicellular Martians would have a harsh time trying to live here on Earth anyway.... too much water vapour.... they'd over-hydrate in an instant.... unless they were placed in the Atacama or something like that. I have a feeling they'd be much more worried about that other nasty toxin that Earth is swimming in. Hint: it makes up around 21% of our atmosphere.
|
|
|
|
|
pjdf
Jan 11, 2007, 5:16 AM
Post #21 of 31
(694 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 307
|
All right, guys, let me issue a couple of corrections. First, Saturn's moon is Titan; Triton is actually a moon of Neptune. Both seem to be relatively active moons. Triton has the suggestion of some very intriguing ice tectonics, while Titan seems to have a methane cycle that mirrors that of water on Earth, with channels and lakes and probable periodic rainstorms. Given this activity, there have been some suggestions that Titan may harbor life. There has also been a great deal of interest in the possibility that Europa, one of Jupiter's moons, may have life in an ocean under and ice shell, with an energy source being provided by tidal flexing (if you want to know how we know any of this, just ask; I just don't want to give people way more information than they want). I think that finding that life evolved separately on Mars would be a truly momentous occasion. Just as the discovery that the Earth rotates around the sun changed our perspective, so, I believe, would the discovery of life evolving elsewhere. If life can evolve on another planet in our own Solar System, it suggests that it likely evolved elsewhere in the universe many times over, so it is extremely likely that some other intelligent life exists. Such a discovery would also suggest that Mars does contain more water than is apparent at the moment, meaning it is more habitable than I believe. It is interesting to note that the discovery of life on Mars does not imply that it evolved separately from Earth. There have been suggestions from very smart scientists that life could have migrated from one planet to the other in meteorites shot off by impacts; in fact, it was shown that ALH84001 couldn't have gotten hotter than ~40C in its interior during its trip from Mars to Earth 4 Ga ago. At those temperatures some form of microbial life could likely have survived the trip and invaded Earth. It saddens me that NASA is shifting its funding towards exploration and away from science at this time. Of the ~$16 billion that have been requested for fiscal year 2007, only about $5 billion are targeted for science. While it is true that exploration will allow for some good hands on work in the distant future, I think we are missing out on an opportunity to learn more soon. I am also very saddened by the loss of most Earth Science programs in NASA's latest budget, which I believe will make the study of the Earth as a full system much more difficult at a crucial time in our understanding of climate and biologic systems. In summary: life on Mars=good; cut NASA funding for science=bad.
|
|
|
|
|
brent_e
Jan 11, 2007, 5:54 AM
Post #22 of 31
(689 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 5111
|
kachoong and pjdf, europa was the one i was actually thinking of. I guess there is an ice shell on the planet with crack that periodically open, fill with water and refreeze. pjdf, Maybe NASA is pushing towards exploration more because they are looking at inhabiting mars in the future? Maybe having a backup plan when earth implodes is higher on their list of priorities then trying to figure earth out itself???? good discussion! Brent
|
|
|
|
|
pjdf
Jan 11, 2007, 7:08 AM
Post #23 of 31
(680 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2006
Posts: 307
|
brent_e wrote: kachoong and pjdf, europa was the one i was actually thinking of. I guess there is an ice shell on the planet with crack that periodically open, fill with water and refreeze. pjdf, Maybe NASA is pushing towards exploration more because they are looking at inhabiting mars in the future? Maybe having a backup plan when earth implodes is higher on their list of priorities then trying to figure earth out itself???? good discussion! Brent Brent, The actual processes that occur on Europa are a topic of great debate. A group at ASU likes a model in which the tidal stresses open cracks in the ice, and when they close water spills out. I tend to prefer a model that involves solid ice tectonics and softer ice diapirs to create the observed features. Good new data (altimetry, radio science, and spectroscopy) could help distinguish between these models, but unfortunately the funding for a Europa orbiter got cut in the science budget cut. NASA's current push towards exploration stems from a speech Bush gave in January 2004 when he charged NASA with returning to the Moon and then going on to Mars. This has led to plans to retire the space shuttle and develop a new crew exploration vehicle and a plan to return to the Moon by 2020. Unfortunately, I believe science has been left behind in all this development, and this will be a real loss in the end. To my mind it is much better to make an investment now to understand the Earth and keep it from having problems than to plan an escape to a planet that I suspect won't be habitable for long time. But, of course, there are two sides to every story, and I do hope that the human spaceflight program is successful and does some real good.
|
|
|
|
|
truello
Jan 11, 2007, 2:19 PM
Post #24 of 31
(663 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2006
Posts: 737
|
pjdf wrote: It saddens me that NASA is shifting its funding towards exploration and away from science at this time. You can thank dear old Mr. Bush for that one. The center I work at was 90% aeronautics and 10% space a couple of years ago. Then Bush announced that he wanted to return to the Moon and Mars, which I don't completely disagree with. However with that, NASA's budget got shifted heavily towards Space so the centers doing mostly aeronautics research were lacking funding and having to look at layoffs. We were faced with ~300 layoffs but since we recently won the contract to develop a large part of the CEV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)) that number has been reduced to just about 0. I'm glad to see it taking a step towards exploration, though. The experiments on the ISS are great but realistically the stuff they are testing would be better tested on the moon with some gravity or a planet with a different atmosphere.
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
Jan 11, 2007, 10:06 PM
Post #25 of 31
(578 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
truello wrote: I'm glad to see it taking a step towards exploration, though. The experiments on the ISS are great but realistically the stuff they are testing would be better tested on the moon with some gravity or a planet with a different atmosphere. Not really, no. Much of the experimentation on the ISS has to do with the effects of microgravity on various processes - so a planetary lab would not be useful for that. A simple example is the growing of alloys and other crystalline structures - in microgravity, things do not separate out according to density, which allows the formation of much more perfectly-mixed structures than are available here on earth. There are, of course, many other very good reasons why a lab on the moon would be a great thing (ultra-high vacuum on tap? Yes, please!).
|
|
|
|
|
|