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rocketsocks
May 5, 2006, 5:57 AM
Post #76 of 93
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You have a rope, you have a partner (I assume), if you get sketched on the walk off just rope up and treat it like a technical scramble.
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cervicornis
May 5, 2006, 6:17 AM
Post #77 of 93
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In reply to: You have a rope, you have a partner (I assume), if you get sketched on the walk off just rope up and treat it like a technical scramble.
Good point, I didn't think of that!
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jimdavis
May 5, 2006, 4:05 PM
Post #78 of 93
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In reply to: Just don't be like jimdavis and remain a n00b for your entire climbing career--and you'll be fine. Curt
Damn Curt, that hurts...I'm gonna go cry and stomp my feet for a while. :roll:
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crotch
May 5, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #79 of 93
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In reply to: Nothing pisses me off worse than spending my own money and time putting up slings and rap rings on a bunch of climbs only to find someone will steal them the next day.
How did the person who "stole" them get down?
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crimpandgo
May 5, 2006, 4:54 PM
Post #80 of 93
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In reply to: In reply to: Nothing pisses me off worse than spending my own money and time putting up slings and rap rings on a bunch of climbs only to find someone will steal them the next day. How did the person who "stole" them get down?
That is a very good question. I don't know since I did not see them do it. In some cases there are some dicey walk offs that i wasn't willing to do. but in other cases they probably uses an old crappy rope and just rapped from the hangers directly. either way it doesn't really matter. Its still theft in my mind
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jt512
May 5, 2006, 5:35 PM
Post #81 of 93
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In reply to: In reply to: If you have to do it again -- on the Thin Wall in J Tree -- walk off. Jay I appreciate all the comments and info. I am learning something. Unless I missed the best approach/walk-off area from the Thin Wall, this doesn't make sense to me. Am I supposed to believe that it would be safer to walk off the wall (in approaching darkness) rather than rap from two bolts that appear to be in excellent condition (using bail gear)?
Well, you do have to negotiate the 6 vertical feet of 5.0, but you are, after all, a V4 boulderer.
In the future, know how you are going to get down before you go up. Most guidebooks give descent beta. Most people who climb at a wall like the Thin Wall have climbed there before. You probably could have asked someone on the ground about the descent.
As for darkness, come on, how can you get benighted on a 50-foot top rope crag with a 5 minute walk-off descent.
In reply to: I can see myself slipping and getting hurt if I were to do the walk-off 1,000 times, but I don't see those bolts failing in as many tries.
You know, you can get hurt leading, too. Perhaps you should always just top rope.
Jay
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jt512
May 5, 2006, 5:39 PM
Post #82 of 93
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In reply to: hubris is the latest buzzword among wimpy liberals
In this case it's n00bris.
Jay
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crotch
May 5, 2006, 8:57 PM
Post #83 of 93
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In reply to: In some cases there are some dicey walk offs that i wasn't willing to do. but in other cases they probably uses an old crappy rope and just rapped from the hangers directly. either way it doesn't really matter. Its still theft in my mind
My guess is that there aren't a whole lot of folks rapping off of standard bolt hangers. If there isn't a rappel anchor there's probably a walkoff, and while you consider removal of an unneccessary rap station as 'theft' others see your 'contribution' as 'litter'.
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gimpster93101
Jan 12, 2007, 9:31 PM
Post #84 of 93
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I've been climbing for < 2 years (< 6 months on trad) and I recently had a "learning experience" with a crappy rap anchor in J-Tree, and I could really use some expert advice:
I was leading a nice easy 5.8 trad route ("The Reverend," I think, on Billboard Buttress in the Indian Cove area), and I get to the top and I see a two-bolt anchor with one new bolt and one antique 1/4" bolt with a thin/sharp-looking hanger - and its a spinner.
I slot a cam in a nearby crack, clip the two bolt hangers and the cam, and set up a top belay for my partner on all 3 pieces using my cordalette. No problem there.
But the wind is gusting over 30mph and its getting dark fast, and by the time my partner reaches me, I'm pretty much numb and its pretty much dark.
So I wanna rap down as fast as possible, and the easy/cheap choice would've been to just thread the rope through the two fixed bolts directly.
However, I was loathe to just run my rope directly through one good bolt hanger and one thin, sharp-looking spinner. At best, I figured it would be hard to pull my rope once we got down, and at worst I was worried the old/thin/sharp hanger might start to cut my rope.
My next thought was "hey maybe this is a good time to use my bail kit..." which at the time consisted of only one 6' piece of webbing (1" tubular) and 2 rap rings.
However, once again, I was completely skecthed out by the thin/sharp-looking spinner and I feared it might slice through my webbing while weighted on rappel.
Ultimately, I chose to play it safe and we ended up rapping off a spare quickdraw and a spare locker (both prior booty) which were fairly well equalized for the direction of our rappel.
I was happy that we got down safely/quickly, but it cost me some gear (albeit free gear).
So here's my slew of questions:
Was I right to think that old/thin hanger might cut or otherwise damange my rope and/or webbing on rappel?
If so, what should you do with that old bolt? Is cliping a biner to it the only safe(ish) way to use it?
And what about the newer bolt? Is it safe to run your rope directly through that one on rappel?
Any advice for how I could've handled this situation safely with ONLY the bail gear described above? (1 piece of webbing, 2 rings, no knife -doh!)
And in general, any advice on how to set up the safest-possible rap anchor off bolt hangers (especially old/thin/sharp ones) without leaving biners behind every time?
In case it isn't obvious, this was my major first run-in with a crappy rap anchor (prior to that day I've always been able to rap off fixed chains, open shuts, etc).
Thanks in advance for any constructive advice, insights, or critiques...
[btw, its possible that this particular route has a steep/slabby 4th- or 5th-class walk-off that I couldn't scope out very well in the failing light, but regardless I wasn't about to start down from the top of that rock without a rope in that crazy high wind situation]
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brianinslc
Jan 12, 2007, 10:23 PM
Post #85 of 93
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gimpster93101 wrote: Any advice for how I could've handled this situation safely with ONLY the bail gear described above? (1 piece of webbing, 2 rings, no knife -doh!) And in general, any advice on how to set up the safest-possible rap anchor off bolt hangers (especially old/thin/sharp ones) without leaving biners behind every time?
Depending on how long the route was, if it was only 1/3" as long as the length of your rope, you coulda done the Texas rope trick.
I'm thinkin' you probably ran into an old Leeper hanger. I've rapped off webbing from those a bit. They look worse than they are sometimes, maybe.
You could have takin' your two rappel rings, girth hitched the sling to them, then tucked the free end of the webbing through the hangers, popped the rings through that end, then rapped off the rings. Or, if you had a 1/3 of your rope left over, matched the ends of the sling/rings, ran the rope through both and clipped the leftover 1/3 of the rope to a binger on the rings. Rap, then pull the rappel rope down, then pull the rope attached to the rings/biner (which pulls the sling through the hangers). Voila.
Could do similar by "blocking" one side of the sling and slipping the other end through both hangers, then rap off the sling, pull the rope, then pull the blocked side down.
Bet there was a downclimb or walkoff...
Cheers!
-Brian in SLC
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gimpster93101
Jan 12, 2007, 10:58 PM
Post #86 of 93
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Just to clarify, I was way too far up for the texas rope trick.
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alpinismo_flujo
Jan 12, 2007, 10:59 PM
Post #87 of 93
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Well I made it through 2 pages and when the thread turned to how much it cost to bolt routes I bailed...
Here's my spin:
The Thin Wall is a walkoff - those anchors that you rappped off of are there for setting TRs which is a common practice on that wall. The chain probably extended the hanger to about the other bolt so you could just clip two draws or single slings and TR.
No you should not have left biners for the next person to take. You NEED a headlamp so you could have walked off in the dark.
You're progression from gym to boulder to TR is spot on. Don't mind these elitists that are flaming you. We all know most of them started out by shitting their pants from being scared to death on TRs.
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gimpster93101
Jan 12, 2007, 11:03 PM
Post #88 of 93
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I'm thinkin' you probably ran into an old Leeper hanger. I've rapped off webbing from those a bit. They look worse than they are sometimes, maybe.
You could have takin' your two rappel rings, girth hitched the sling to them, then tucked the free end of the webbing through the hangers, popped the rings through that end, then rapped off the rings. Or, if you had a 1/3 of your rope left over, matched the ends of the sling/rings, ran the rope through both and clipped the leftover 1/3 of the rope to a binger on the rings. Rap, then pull the rappel rope down, then pull the rope attached to the rings/biner (which pulls the sling through the hangers). Voila.
Could do similar by "blocking" one side of the sling and slipping the other end through both hangers, then rap off the sling, pull the rope, then pull the blocked side down.
-Brian in SLC
Thanks for the suggestions Brian! I'd love to see photos or more detailed descriptions of the 2 methods you described above.
I'm doing my best to learn how to improvise using as little gear as possible, and these techniques sound promising...please elaborate!
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iamthewallress
Jan 12, 2007, 11:05 PM
Post #89 of 93
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[quote "rockguide"]If the station is not made for rappelling from, then there is/will be:
1) A way to scramble around down
2) An alternate rappel station
[i]3) Everyone since the first ascentionist stuck there, looking very hungry and oh-so thirsty.[/i]
[/quote]
[laugh]
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bill413
Jan 15, 2007, 3:20 PM
Post #90 of 93
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gimpster93101 wrote: I was leading a nice easy 5.8 trad route ("The Reverend," I think, on Billboard Buttress in the Indian Cove area), and I get to the top and I see a two-bolt anchor with one new bolt and one ...
Sounds to me like the thin hanger could have damaged your rope or whatever webbing you put thru it, so you were better off using a metal to metal link there.
If you were comfortable running your rope directly thru the newer bolt (a flamable topic for debate) then you could have used less gear. Or, maybe rigged the system as: Girth the cordalette thru the good bolt (making life difficult for the next person to climb the route), biner it to the 1/4" bolt. Tie an equalized knot, girth a rap ring to that. Now thread the rope thru the rap ring & go. This leaves behind one biner, one cordalette, one rap ring.
Of course, where I've used the term cordallete, you could use the webbing have, or whatever.
But, in terms of speed for you, and ease for the next climber to come up, what you did is probably better.
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jt512
Jan 15, 2007, 4:10 PM
Post #91 of 93
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thetroutscout wrote: It really is a hassle when the route setting cheaps out and uses standard bolts at the top.
I hate those cheap-ass trad route setters. Some of them are too cheap to leave any gear at the top. And what's worse is when somebody spends their own money to add the gear that the original route setter was too cheap to leave, sometimes the route setter goes and chops the gear. Some of those trad route setters are just pricks.
Jay
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jt512
Jan 15, 2007, 4:16 PM
Post #92 of 93
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jimdavis wrote: In reply to: Is there anything you can share with us about that day that you did right? Curt Funny how Curt likes to rip on people in the beginners forum for still learning, and having the courage to admit they don't know something.
It's not that he didn't know something. He wasn't prepared to even toprope at a trad crag. When did noobs begin to believe that they could go from the gym to a trad crag without additional preparation?
Jay
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jt512
Jan 15, 2007, 4:24 PM
Post #93 of 93
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sbaclimber wrote: You might be suprised what a 10.5mm rope will fit through (I was).
How surprised can you be the minimum size of a hole that a 10.5 mm rope can fit through?
Jay
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