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go_dyno
Jan 21, 2007, 3:04 AM
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I have a small/medium and what I believe to be normal size head and my helmet sits so high on my head and is almost unwearable with my skullcap on that I think the stap system may be set too short.(I got it from a Finnish climber buddy who might have had an odd head)
So, before I try and change the strap system to allow my head deeper in the helmet is there a "crush distance" that needs to be maintained between the strap suspension web and the shell?
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stymingersfink
Jan 22, 2007, 5:35 AM
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my partner wears one of these, and i have decided it will be my next helmet as it has proven more comfortable than my Half Dome lid. It does seem to have a not-insignificant space between the harness system and the inside of the helmet. I have used it to store my skull-cap when climbing on warmer days, though this practice is probably not recommended. I think you were on the right track when you were asking about crush distance. Personally, I wouldn't screw with it one iota. oh, and don't use it as a storage area for stuff, for as convenient as it sometime seems, this is not the proper place to store your cigarettes.
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8flood8
Jan 22, 2007, 6:23 AM
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the strap system is designed to stretch with impacts :. i would not decrease your "crush distance"
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redpoint73
Jan 22, 2007, 5:52 PM
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Are you talking about modifying the helmet, or just adjusting it as it was designed?
If you stay within the limits of the intended adjustments, you should have plenty of gap between the shell and the suspension.
The Ecrin has lots of adjustments, so it can take quite a bit of fiddling to get it just right.
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go_dyno
Jan 22, 2007, 11:07 PM
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The Ecrin Roc has the ability to adjust the distance between the harness system and the shell to allow your head to be as deep or as shallow as you would like.
I believe that a helmet (quality helmet assumed) should do 3 things. Take direct strike from above, protect for side impacts and stay put in a tumbling rag doll fall. I believe the Ecrin Roc is the best helmet out there, but mine sits so high that it dramatically reduces side impact coverage and I don't think it would stay put in a tumbling fall sitting so far atop of my noggen.
I just assumed since the vertical adjustment exists that their was a +/- distance safety recommendation. I'm gonna call Petzl and ask and I'll post their rply.
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go_dyno
Jan 23, 2007, 12:49 AM
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Spoke with Petzl. They were very helpful as always and said, "yes it was made to adjust and that the shell was rated to accept a direct impact no matter where the internal harness was set, but to give some room because the harness itself was designed to stretch some under impact" also said, " that the Ecrin Roc and no other helmet that he was aware of guaranteed protection form side impacts"
I do personally think their should be some "crush distance and stretch distance", but I'm gonna lengthen my internal harness abit.
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brushman
Jan 23, 2007, 4:39 PM
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So, did Petzl recommend any hints to aid in the process of the depth/strap adjustment? On mine, it looks as though the straps may be adjusted in the front only. Have you done yours yet? Tips? Insight?
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skinner
Jan 23, 2007, 4:53 PM
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The "crush distance" you refer to is what gives the helmet it's pass/fail grade with impact absorption and penetration resistance. If you research this a bit you'll find that many of the lower profile helmets only marginally pass these tests.
3 models of each helmet are tested by mounting them on a wooden form that simulates the human head, with a load sensor located in the head-form’s neck. In the helmet-top impact test, a 5-kilogram weight called a striker, with a 50mm-radius blunt end is dropped onto the helmet from a height of 2 meters. The force on the neck’s load sensor can’t exceed 8 kiloNewtons (kN) for the UIAA and 10kN for the CE.
For the penetration test, a cone-shaped 3kg striker with a .5mm tip is dropped 2 meters onto the top of the helmet. The result is a simple pass/fail — while the striker can penetrate the shell of the helmet, it cannot touch the head-form.
The helmet’s stability (also called front-and-rear roll-off) is tested by dropping a 10kg weight separately onto the front and rear of the helmet. The degree of displacement is recorded, but to pass the test, the helmet must simply stay on the head-form after being struck.
It is important to note that test results can vary from lab to lab due to inconsistencies in how each lab adjusts the helmet’s fit and suspension on the head-form. This is an issue of some discussion in the climbing manufacturing world, one that will likely be addressed by the UIAA in the near future.
Even the UIAA has not come up with a standard for suspension "crush distance" yet.. but once they do, no doubt helmets will be limited to the amount of adjust the suspension will allow.
The long an short of it is that the "crush distance" is an important factor in the functionality of the helmet as "protection" and only the manufacturer could suggest what the minimum distance should be.
On a side note: My Half-Dome broke while inside my pack on the walk out in -35° temps. I'm all for lightweight by not at the expense of durability.
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drfelatio
Jan 24, 2007, 1:24 AM
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Ok I'm gonna ask the obvious question: Did you loosen the headband enough to allow your head to fit inside the helmet?
[EDIT] Oh and don't forget that the Ecrin Roc comes with two pads - a thick one and a thin one. Maybe the pad is too thick and you need to switch to the thin one?
(This post was edited by drfelatio on Jan 24, 2007, 1:36 AM)
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go_dyno
Jan 24, 2007, 5:16 AM
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I've been wearing this helmet since 1996. I'm pretty familiar with it. I wear the thick band in summer and the thin in winter with skull cap. The helmet has never fit as well as I think it should, but I think it is the best out there from a safety point of view and adjustability. It just sits far too high on my head and especially with skull cap.
I didn't get any instructions on how to do it, only that it could be done. I do believe this should be done VERY conservatively. My helmet tends to also slip too far forward due to a very symmetrical harness and my melon is a bit higher in the back than the front.
I intend to get a big broad flat head screwdriver with a short shank and short handle and try and pop the plastic male squares down and out & add a small bit of length to the harness. If it all goes south then I'll put it back the way it was and deal with it as I have for over 10 years.
I'll give a post op report when the surgery is over.
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bent_gate
Jan 24, 2007, 7:20 AM
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Definitely report if you are able to adjust it. I have the exact same complaint with the helmet, and if I can adjust it, I might just keep it. There is like a good 2 inches between the suspension system and the shell.
I'm tired of banging my helmet unexpectantly against overhangs and other things I climb or walk under because it rides so high. Just like getting on an airplane, everyone knows exactly how much to duck their head to keep from hitting the door jamb, or other low obstacles. Add this 2" high riding helmet, and you end up constantly bonking it on things. Reducing 1 inch of that height would be nice.
I don't see how to easily get those square inserts out, that hold the straps in place. They also seem to have two small pegs that snap into place that hold it seated in its position. So if you know a good way to get it out let us know!
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brushman
Feb 11, 2007, 2:31 PM
Post #12 of 17
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Well, I did some investigation on my helmet yesterday. Believing that the two front straps would allow for depth adjustment, I gently pulled out the white slotted tabs only to find that the straps are bar-tacked (sewn, and hidden from view when white tabs are slotted in place). So, it appears that adjustment is impossible from this area. Perhaps the rear tabs...but this looks more complictated with an additional strap tail located there. I think I'll pass on this fearing an irreversible f*ck-up....
Info from the rest of you?
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go_dyno
Feb 13, 2007, 3:55 AM
Post #13 of 17
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I have been procrastinating this everytime I start, I decide it looks a lil'too time consuming for the moment. I did decide only to try and adjust the rear, so I'll give a sitrep when done.
I'm kind POd at the Petzl cust-service guy b/c he said this could be done and never mentioned the bartacking. I hope the rear is not bartacked also.
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rocknice2
Feb 13, 2007, 4:35 AM
Post #14 of 17
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go_dyno wrote: I've been wearing this helmet since 1996.
Maybe it's time for a new hemut that fits to your liking. Does Petzl make a larger size and did you try one on.
The comfort and security may well be worth the cost.
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maldaly
Feb 13, 2007, 4:54 AM
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An Ecrin Roc has saved my life twice so I'm pretty inclined to like the damn things. I had the same problem as the OP and after lots of investigation found that the helmet fit fine but my ears were low so it just looked like the helmet sat too high on my head. I've been in therapy ever since the plastic surgeon said he wouldn't raise my ears...
Mal
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rocknice2
Feb 13, 2007, 7:00 AM
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Do your ears get in the way of your footwork 
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go_dyno
Mar 9, 2007, 2:46 AM
Post #17 of 17
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I went to my local climbing store (30 miles from me) and had them look into adjusting the harness there in the store and then over the phone with Petzl and the conclusion, by the 2nd Petzl Customer Service person was "I'm not sure what I'm talking about, but somebody here has told me do not adjust because it needs the space (crush/deformity distance) between the shell and harness"
So, far Petzl CS has said, "go for it, no prob adjusting" and then, "don't becuz..."
I'm kinda scared to just go for it after seeing the guy at the climbing store's attempts at the procedure. If anyone succeeds I'd love to hear about it!
God Bless
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