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kimgraves
Jan 30, 2007, 5:52 PM
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Hi Gang,
After September 11th the only communications that were working were people's Blackberry devices and email. Everything else was jammed up.
In a paranoid delusion (we were all a little/lotta nuts then) I went out and bought a pair of walkie-talkies: just so if it ever happened again, I'd have a way of keeping in touch with Masha if we got separated.
Now of course this is ridiculous. No one knows when or if another attack is going to occur and so you don’t carry a radio around with you - that really WOULD be paranoid. They sit at home in my climbing equipment box looking for a use. They have more use as a toy that my grandson uses when he comes to visit that a real tool. I've taken them to the Gunks thinking they would be useful for multipitch but always left them in the car. It's a little embarrassing - a high tech solution when simple voice and rope signals should and have always worked.
But this past weekend they came in very handy.
My partner, Matt, and I wanted to climb a WI4 in the Catskills called Jeff’s Wet Dream. The problem is that you have to drop into it and then climb back up. It’s in a deep chasm that a stream runs through. It potentially dangerous to try and walk along the stream bed if it’s not really frozen – and it’s been a very warm winter here. At the top of the climb is a small (10” maybe) tree that is used as a rap point. The problem is that the runoff that creates the climb runs all around the tree so you can’t approach it without crampons – a belay is prudent as well.
The TR tree is starting to go with all the bark worn away in the back by toprope slings. We decided to build the TR anchor off a much bigger tree that was 20 feet further back from the lip. We then rapped off a second single line making for a very easy and safe process. The problem of course is that the rap started 25 feet back from the edge with another 90’ down into a narrow gorge. There was no way we were going to be able to communicate. The status at the bottom was uncertain - would there be a place to stand and top rope and would the climb be even doable with all the warm weather we’d been having? I might need to Jumar out if it wasn’t.
Realizing I had the walkie-talkie’s with me, I handed one to Matt and rapped off setting the TR as I went. The walkie-talkie’s made everything easy. No YELLING, no “WHAT DID YOU SAY.” They allowed us to work together and be very calm about the whole process.
So I’m going to use them. The last time we went to Mt Washington we got separated and I had to descend to make sure Matt was okay. The WT would have been useful there. Sometimes Matt goes one way and I another looking for the start of a climb. They would be useful there. And of course wind, distance, and corners on multi-pitch are issues as well.
Still there is a nagging voice in my head saying “it’s cheating.” But at least it’s not sport climbing.
Best, Kim
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Jan 30, 2007, 6:14 PM)
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krusher4
Jan 30, 2007, 5:57 PM
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It's not cheating geez....I've used them on walls it really makes the communicating a whole lot easier.
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wanlessrm
Jan 30, 2007, 6:05 PM
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Phssed: Its not cheating! :OVER: Phssed:
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jp_sucks
Jan 30, 2007, 6:26 PM
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I lived in Ontario years ago and used to climb at an unknown cliff with a huge river at it's base. We used radios for every climb there as communications were impossible. Rope tugs work for the occasional issue but get really annoying if you're climbing 15-20 pitches a day.
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reno
Jan 30, 2007, 6:29 PM
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Use them from time to time myself, and don't consider it cheating at all.
Some routes in Red Rock Canyon outside Vegas.... again in the Wind River Range of Wyoming.
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markc
Jan 30, 2007, 6:36 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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I regularly carry two-way radios on multipitch routes. If I can casually call down to my partner(s), I prefer to do so. However, there are times when wind or features makes verbal communication strained or impossible. Rope signals can work, but if you add in drag you're back to unclear communication. Radios take the guesswork out of the equation. They can certainly be overkill in some situations, but I wouldn't call them cheating.
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primus
Jan 30, 2007, 7:02 PM
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I don't know why anyone would even consider the use of 2-way radios as cheating. :rolleyes:
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anykineclimb
Jan 30, 2007, 7:26 PM
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wanlessrm wrote: Phssed: Its not cheating! :OVER: Phssed:
Phssed: Roger that! Phssed
excellent for use on wandering routes, windy areas, or crowded places too.
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kachoong
Jan 30, 2007, 7:34 PM
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Registered: Jan 23, 2004
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Yep, it's great to use them. I used to use the same pair that we used on our motorcycles on the highway... ear pieces attached to the unit on your belt. Just duct tape them to your harness... voice activated.... works great.
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jumpingrock
Jan 30, 2007, 7:37 PM
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My experience thus far is that whenever I need a radio I have left them at home or in the car, and whenever I have them I don't need them. But no, it's not cheating in my mind. It's using a tool to facilitate fun and safety by enhancing efficiency.
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markc
Jan 30, 2007, 8:11 PM
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kachoong wrote: Yep, it's great to use them. I used to use the same pair that we used on our motorcycles on the highway... ear pieces attached to the unit on your belt. Just duct tape them to your harness... voice activated.... works great.
My radios have kind of crappy clips, so I have them backed up with shock cord. I can easily unclip it from the back of the harness at a belay and then reclip before setting off on the next pitch. I've never really needed them mid-pitch, so voice activation isn't a priority. I guess it would be good if you were bored.
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kachoong
Jan 30, 2007, 9:45 PM
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markc wrote: I've never really needed them mid-pitch, so voice activation isn't a priority. I guess it would be good if you were bored.
Yeah, we were really bored.... but it helped me get the "slack" message across, especially since I was so used to shouting it anyway. LMAO! Didn't help when I was in the crux moves and stupid jokes were being whispered across the airwaves. "so... this kangaroo comes hopping into a bar....".
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markc
Jan 30, 2007, 10:01 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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kachoong wrote: markc wrote: I've never really needed them mid-pitch, so voice activation isn't a priority. I guess it would be good if you were bored. Yeah, we were really bored.... but it helped me get the "slack" message across, especially since I was so used to shouting it anyway. LMAO! Didn't help when I was in the crux moves and stupid jokes were being whispered across the airwaves. "so... this kangaroo comes hopping into a bar....".
I sometimes climb as a party of three. Voice activation would make for an icy reception after asking, "Why the hell is he leading so slow?" Of course, it's always followed with an encouraging shout like, "Looking really good, man!"
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scotchie
Jan 30, 2007, 10:25 PM
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Registered: Jul 31, 2004
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I use walkie talkies sometimes. They always help with distance, and usually with wind. But sometimes you can get around a corner that blocks the radio signal.
I girth-hitch a sling to the walkie-talkie and carabiner it to either my harness or my helmet strap. And I have to use climbing tape to hold the twist-volume in the right position.
When they work (and I remember to bring them on the trip), then they are really helpful.
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alexmac
Jan 30, 2007, 11:51 PM
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Registered: May 23, 2005
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beep beep (battery low) ..... wind.... cold... beep...
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rhyang
Jan 31, 2007, 12:10 AM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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Sometimes you cannot hear your partner shout 'off belay', etc. due to wind noise, waterfall noise, echoes off canyon walls, etc. In those situations you either need to agree on a set of rope signals ahead of time, or carry walkie-talkies.
Some sample rope signals :
- leader tugs 4 times -> off belay
- follower tugs 4 times back -> belay is off
- leader tugs 3 times -> you're on belay
- follower tugs 3 times back -> climbing
This is not foolproof of course - what if the rope gets stuck ? How many tugs is "that's me". If I know ahead of time that hearing my partner could be an issue I will bring walkie-talkies.
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shimanilami
Jan 31, 2007, 12:41 AM
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Registered: Jul 24, 2006
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Just to be the fly in everyone's vaseline, using walkie-talkies is clearly cheating. Communicating at all is clearly cheating. Just like downclimbing to a rest spot is cheating.
Not sure who said it first, but anything less than onsight shoeless, chalkless, naked free soloing is cheating ... with or without radios.
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Adk
Jan 31, 2007, 1:02 AM
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To me it's called safety, just like rope is used for safety.
Now, if you don't mind screaming at the top of your lungs spooking all the beeutiful aminals away, go ahead, I guess.
In all honesty, I do see them just as a safety item. A simple piece of gear that has saved many lives and prevented other lives from being taken needlessly.
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majid_sabet
Jan 31, 2007, 1:57 AM
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You should take them with you all them time cause when shi* hits the fan, the only think that may work is your $10 FRS. Now if you want to go farther then get your ham radio lic then you could use hi power hand held radio which gives much more power and range to talk.
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getsomeethics
Jan 31, 2007, 6:33 AM
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Registered: May 2, 2002
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just need some super small ones with an earpiece that are voice activated. handsfree
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dingus
Jan 31, 2007, 6:54 AM
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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No radios aren't cheating.
Nylon... THAT'S CHEATING.
DMT
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healyje
Jan 31, 2007, 9:40 AM
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Registered: Aug 22, 2004
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Cell phones are cheating - radios are simply an annoying crutch for those unwilling or incapable of communicating with a rope. And to be honest, if you're paying atttention to what's happening with the rope and you're partner at the other end of it you should be half ahead of the game to begin with...
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shimanilami
Jan 31, 2007, 4:47 PM
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At the root of the whole "cheating" debate is the question of "style". What is cheating, really? A simple definition is that cheating is breaking the rules. But whose rules are we talking about? And what place do rules have in climbing, anyway?
One of the reasons climbing appeals to me is that there are few hard and fast rules. Admittedly, most of us agree that we shouldn't bolt cracks, nail clean routes, etc. But questions about style (e.g. "onsight", "cheating", "poor technique") really only matter to style-mongers.
Are you a style-monger? If so, your issues are your own. If not, then fuck it.
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healyje
Jan 31, 2007, 4:52 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Are you a style-monger? If so, your issues are your own. If not, then fuck it.
It's not a matter of cheating, but of annoying when you aren't alone at a crag. I recently was treated to the ring of cell phones for belay signalling by a party ahead of us on a route this past year and it sucked. Getting away from that sort of thing is why I go climbing. The screech of radios is similarly irritating.
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