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Partner missedyno


Sep 17, 2002, 5:37 PM
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okay.

i'm going to be totally honest.

i can climb, i can push myself and everything good like that, but sometimes (i'm embarrassed to say) i've leaned back on society's gender oriented expectations and slacked.

i'm by no means a "girly girl" by any definition, not really fragile, bla bla....

but i have (especially when climbing with my boyfriend) not tried as hard. looked at a climb and tried something easier, because i know that, whether i support these views or not, less is expected of me since i'm a chick.

anyone else out there who knows they aren't pushing themselves as much as they can?

i'll get really mad (bitchy) after a night of climbing where i know i said things like "oh i'm just a girl i can't do that".

thoughts?


climberchic


Sep 17, 2002, 5:57 PM
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Never said used my gender as an excuse, but I often use my injuries as an excuse. Although the pain is genuine, I don't suck it up often enough because the guys let me get away with it.

I definitely don't push myself as hard as when I'm with women. I'm used to being the strongest one amongst my female friends that I am around and am inspired by women stronger than me. I think I'd push myself much harder than I am with the guys.

[ This Message was edited by: climberchic on 2002-09-17 18:01 ]


climbchick


Sep 17, 2002, 6:03 PM
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I don't push myself too much but it's more because physically hard climbing just isn't that interesting to me. If it was, I would probably train a lot and go all out and expect to climb just as hard as the hardest male climbers. The only time I use my femininity as an excuse is when it comes to stuff like fixing things . . hehe . .


froggy


Sep 17, 2002, 6:20 PM
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I don't think I have ever used being female as an excuse for anything. But, if I were to go out climbing with a girlfriend that does not lead - I would probably push myself, because I was the one responsible for leading up the rock. Hopefully in return, my partner has a good / positive day of climbing

If I were with a guy or gal partner that has more experience than me, I would not feel as eager to push myself, because I know they can handle it..
~Sara

[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-09-17 18:22 ]


Partner missedyno


Sep 17, 2002, 6:28 PM
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yeah, i push myself more climbing with people i don't know that well....


i hate it though when i'm being just fine and they feel the need to mock me for being the only girl, though i'm not doing anything. like going out on a multipitch with a male partner and the whole time you're holding your own, and doing fine, and everything's good... then when you get back to the camp you hear them being all manly and saying things like "oh she did okay" and "she didn't wine too much" and make it sound like they dragged you up the climb. i've been completely relaxed on a climb and then later heard my partner (we don't climb together anymore) say "oh jess looked worried on the climb" like i was sitting on a ledge trembling with fear and daydreaming about all the babies i hope to have one day.

now THAT really really really pisses me off.

(and it hurts )


climbinggirl33


Sep 17, 2002, 6:29 PM
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You know, it's funny . . . all the guys I climb with know that the way to get me to climb HARDER is to say "ahhhh, a girl probably couldn't make that move!" Now that's incentive!!!


froggy


Sep 17, 2002, 6:36 PM
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Crazylikeafawkes,
I am glad to hear that you are no longer climbing with that jerk any more. I had a partner like that.. When I first started climbing I would follow him up long routes and he would give himself a huge pat on the back for climbing it sooooo well. It was all about him and his bragging rights..
Now I climb with people that appreciate all forms of climbing regardless of if you lead it or not - you still did the climb.
Screw climbers with big ego's!~ Climb to climb not to brag!



Partner missedyno


Sep 17, 2002, 6:45 PM
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yeah... thanks, froggy....

i had been hearing for awhile from other people "you're climbing with the wrong people"

...

so true. last trip with them i was "ditched" the saturday night at camp... saying they were doing some climbs that were too hard for me. too hard? this was about 3 full grade levels below what i had climbed earlier in the weekend. they tried to set me up with someone else for sunday, but due to communication failure, i ended up with no climbing partner at all.

funny thing, i used to get all sorts of "climbing partner" offers when i was single. i guess they were hoping they could get something out of it?


dyno2acrimper


Sep 17, 2002, 6:54 PM
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The only time i have ever used being a girl as an excuse (not really an excuse)...was when some of the guys i was climbing with gave me crap...then i went and did a move they couldn't...said HA, you just got beat by a girl...and walked away. they don't give me crap that much ne more...


Partner missedyno


Sep 17, 2002, 7:22 PM
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yes, and i agree with skibabeage.... but i worded this according to the unfortunate yet still in existence views from society.

i'm a strong female, riot grrrrl, all that good stuff, just looking to see if anyone ever gives in every so often...

climb on girls


jt512


Sep 17, 2002, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
I don't suck it up often enough because the guys let me get away with it.


I think you mean and we let you get away with it, not "because."

I'm sure that this is partly a gender issue, but also just a matter of taking an opportunity to avoid doing something that is uncomfortable. For instance, when I trad climb, I rarely lead when I'm climbing with a better trad climber. It's just too easy to take the easy way out.

-Jay


climberchic


Sep 17, 2002, 7:59 PM
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I did mean "because".

I suck it up much more often when I'm climbing with girls.

Is that waht you meant?


jt512


Sep 17, 2002, 8:03 PM
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"'Because' the guys let me get away with it" sounds like you are putting the blame on the guys.

When I wuss out and let my partner lead an intimidating trad route, it's not his fault that I don't lead it. It's me not pushing myself.

-Jay


daisuke


Sep 17, 2002, 8:14 PM
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I know that many times the women I've climbed with have fallen back on their femininity for the excuse that they can't finish a route. but the truth is that many these girls are defeatists, they start off routes thinking they'll never finish them. I've done this myself but I blame it on not enough strength

There is nothing better (in my mind) than a person that goes for it and gives it all to do whatever it is they're trying to do better... and do it for themselves, not to impress others. giving up is not cool...

that said.. I think we all blame things for our failures at one point or another as excuses, and not to appear better in the face of others, but in our own eyes, do justify our own faults.

we all have our reasons, and I'd say that one of the objectives of life is to face these reasons and get over them.

so... power to the women and power to the ppl!!! everyone go for it!!!



climberchic


Sep 17, 2002, 8:33 PM
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Oh, I see Jay.

No blame at all on the guys! They let me get away with it because I'm a girl (I think. It may be because they know I will kick their butts ) when I know they would never let their guy friends get away with it.

So therefore- because I get away with it, I wuss out more.

Sound better?


jt512


Sep 17, 2002, 8:35 PM
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That's what I figured you meant in the first place, but then you could be right that we just don't want you to beat us up, too.

-Jay

[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-09-17 20:36 ]


jprice


Sep 17, 2002, 8:38 PM
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Using femininity as an excuse only hurts YOU really. You might as well convince yourself that you can't do a certain climb because you have blue eyes, etc. Using the "I'm a girl" excuse for anything only feeds into the social stereotype of women as weak. I don't feel weak and I'm sure that you really don't either. Be strong, be a woman, roar a little. Okay roar A LOT. If you don't want to do a climb or don't want to push yourself that's one thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with being a woman.


nikegirl


Sep 17, 2002, 8:39 PM
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Let's see...
I can't think of any time I used my gender as an excuse in climbing...
The fact is...this is the first thing in life, that I've done that I feel is good for me...just for me, only for me.
I love that I have found my nitch.
I don't use the excuse of a gender as I would say: I don't climb that grade...
But, if I don't know a grade...then I can't use that excuse. And I giver 'er a good old try. I power until I just can't grip. I'm not much for giving up.
Truthfully, NO I never use my gender, as an excuse.

I shall climb, hike/ approach (killer ones too) and not complain...huff on the lack of my lung capacity. But, generally I've been told, I'm easy going and determined. I like that, for I do my damndest to not complain...learn, and enjoy it all as an experience.
Strength, Power ...I am proud.


babbling* as I do so well...it's a GURL trait *


T


nikegirl


Sep 17, 2002, 8:44 PM
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not understanding that above post on deleting...?? whu?!?!?!?



climbchick


Sep 17, 2002, 9:31 PM
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Martha -- I am not the one who deleted that post but I think it was done with good intentions. This is supposed to be a tightly moderated forum, meaning that certain types of posts will be removed . . i.e. cat-calling, anything offensive (i.e. obscene language), anything off-topic.

However, since the forum is only a few hours old, we haven't quite figured out all "the rules" and need to come to some kind of consensus about what is appropriate here and what is not. Since we're all going to be using this forum, I think it would be a good idea to encourage a general discussion rather than leaving it up to the mods to make all the decisions. That way, we can hopefully come up with a forum that meets the needs of the majority. I know this is likely to stir up a heated debate about Free Speech, etc, but I'm sure we can all handle it



cragchica


Sep 17, 2002, 10:13 PM
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It varies very much from partner to partner... Most of the time I feel my femininity to be empowering but there are occasions when I'll not push myself as hard because I don't have to.

Usually I am motivated by the fact that I am a woman. I get a huge kick out of seeing a guy's face when I accomplish something he didn't think a 'girl' could do. I have always been like this... whether while hiking out of the Grand Canyon as a little girl and refusing the offer of a piggy-back ride to the top with a shake of the head and a sprint up the trail, or working my butt off to get the highest grade in my AP physics class because I was the only girl.

When it comes to climbing, I am generally the same way, if I see somebody do a climb, I want to do it too - if it's a guy I can show up - all the better. Usually guys are asking for it, because they are macho by nature. It's not as fun to compete with women, because they aren't as overtly competitive as guys usually are.
Sometimes climbing with guys drives me to try harder to reach their level, but sometimes I drive myself harder when I am with people who don't climb as hard as me, because it's up to me to lead the routes.

The best, however, is climbing with another woman who is at (or slightly above) my ability level - we push ourselves and end out not only climbing harder, but having more fun with the challenge too.


catwoman


Sep 17, 2002, 10:49 PM
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I don't need to impress anybody with awesome climbing skills. I mean, I want to be safe, etc. but as far pushing myself too hard, using excuses because I'm female..... no need. I just like to climb. I'm not competing. Not doing it for anyone but me.


Partner calamity_chk


Sep 17, 2002, 11:18 PM
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Erica .. interesting point on wussing out in front of the boys more often than the girls .. I tend to be the opposite. Though, most of my male partners tend to push me harder than my femme partners do ..


rock_diva


Sep 17, 2002, 11:30 PM
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I don't use gender as an excuse... except if I'm being sarcastic...sometimes we (climbing buddies and I) good-naturedly trash talk -- they'll say "you're just a little girl...bet you can't climb that." And when I crank something tough that they have trouble with, "man, you must be embarrased to be shown up by a girl!"



climbsomething


Sep 18, 2002, 6:49 AM
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Nah, what I really do is (over- ?) invoke the "short clause." I am not the shortest out there, but I am not tall either (5'3) and trying to use holds or get to gear placements that 6 foot tall men use... grr! Maybe you want to argue that my height is due to my sex, but that's now how I see it. Short is short. I see short men struggle too. We commiserate. (but they're still always taller than I am )

So, I have excuses, but being a woman isn't one of them

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