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skidawg
Jan 17, 2005, 8:43 AM
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I have this sort of wierd genetic thing going on with my shoulders...because they are so loose (for lack of a better term), they partially dislocate very easily (subluxing I guess is the word). This happens most often when my arms are straight or far to the side, which are positions you are in a lot while climbing. I went through therepy, and learned that exercising those muscles builds mass in that area, and helps to hold it in, which has definitely helped but has not stopped it completely. I guess my idea was to use some sort of a fabric brace type thing...sort of like people do with their knees and elbows...something that would make the shoulder area tighter, but not restrict movement. I was wondering if anybody on this site has, or knows of someone that does something like this, or if there are any other ideas out there. I understand that I take a risk of it comming out no matter what, but it would help if I could reduce that chance.
Thank you for your replies in advance.
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andy_reagan
Jan 17, 2005, 2:47 PM
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Hey dude, the shoulder brace idea works. I've used one when I was skydiving. The drawback, as you guessed, is it pretty well hinders your full range of motion. It doesn't decrease your range of motion, it just makes the resistance getting into certain positions harder. The positive is your shoulder won't pop out of its socket when 200 mile per hour wind hits it. You might find you could climb with it. I don't think I could tolerate the restriction of movement, though.
Good luck. The only real thing I've found to help is shoulder exercises. Flys, pushups, dips, etc. These exercises help you in other ways, as well.
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sharpend
Jan 17, 2005, 5:04 PM
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unfortunately i too am cursed with a loose shoulder. About a year ago i had a terrible dislocation and it continued to dislocate from then on. My doctor prescribed me a brace called a sawa brace.
http://www.braceint.com/
As you can see from the pics it does restrict your movement Alot. you can adjust the brace to let you move your arm above your head and allow you to climb but with that increased motion there is also an increased risk. I found that if i tried to climb harder routes it would stress my shoulder more, even with the brace on. Once on a 5.11 while straining for a hold my shoulder painfully dislocated, with the brace on, the dislocation forced me to the ground and required some force to relocate. After that i realized that the brace was more of a warning, meaning that when i heard the brace start to strain i was millimeters from dislocating and therefor had to back off. I climbed 5.8 with no problem. But the harder routes are a serious risk because of the strain.
This december i had surgery to tighten my shoulder and i am currently recovering. Unfortunately I cant climb tell mid summer but hopefully it will cure my dislocation problem and i will be able to climb hard again.
I feel your pain
-Evan Bullard
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skidawg
Jan 17, 2005, 6:12 PM
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andy_regan...I was just wondering what type of brace you use...and how you wear it. I looked at the one sharpend uses, and that looks like to much of a pain to work for me...I have it in both shoulders. I've considered surgery too, but the doctor said the type I would need is sort of experimental and has not been working out like they had expected it too, so I'm going to stay away from that as long as possible.
hope all of you get over this shoulder thing too.
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slacker_chick
Feb 3, 2005, 2:05 AM
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I have this same problem. I tried physical therapy and that didnt work too well. I ended up having shoulder surgery in Dec 1999. That worked miracles. It still comes out just a little but not like it used too (where if i would pull down there would be almost 2 inches of seperation, now its less than 1/2 an inch). There are some down falls of the surgery: cant move your shoulder for 6 weeks after (besides with the physical therapist). But I have no more pain yeah :D . This surgery worked so well that I had it done again on my other shoulder in April of 02. Having the surgery worked really well. And im stronger now than I ever have been. Before the surgery I couldnt even do one push up with out it coming out of joint, but now my record is 43 in 1 min (pretty good for a girl haha)
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iamchristoph
Feb 3, 2005, 2:24 AM
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wow you guys have some screwed up shoulders. I dislocateded mine in high school, and had problems with it for a long time. Really painful dislocations if a foot popped or something like that. But it was usually caused from a shock load or sudden jolt. I worked on my footwork and avoid extending to my limit and it hasn't been out for about a year and a half. I need to be real careful though bad shoulders are plentiful in my family, lots of torn rotator cuffs.
Good luck with finding something to work out for those.
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androids
Feb 5, 2005, 7:30 PM
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hey so ive dislocated both shoulders at least a dozen times. things i found...dont traverse, it puts youre shoulders out.
take a month off, i spent all of october doing easy alpine. my shoulers dont pop put as easy, and im stronger cuz i dont worry about them as much.
avoid reachy gaston's!
try more slab climbin, less work on youre shoulders, more technique.
if all else fails look into prolo therapy.
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skidawg
Feb 10, 2007, 7:24 AM
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I remembered having posted this about a year ago, and thought I'd leave an update on what has been going on...my hope being that it might help people with similar problems. As I mentioned I have had problems with my shoulders subluxing, and disclocating very easily. After crashing on my mountain bike, I ended up really doing it in even more by tearing my lebrum, and just stretching, and tearing things up in there even more (I'm an engineer, and know nothing about biology, so bare with me). Anyway, I decided finally to get surgery, and my shoulder is doing much better now. It's been about...7 months now since I had the surgery. Basically they fized the lebrum, and in re-attaching the gizzards in my arm (I wasn't joking...I really am clueless) they tightened things up. To re-cap...I did physical therapy for about 3 months about two years ago to strengthen the muscles in hopes that it would hold the shoulders in, but it didn't help enough, so here I am...anyway, after about 5 months of physical therapy after the surgery (the worst part about the whole ordeal...the pain of the surgery itself was nothin'....) I am getting my strength back, and just waiting for the snow and ice to melt over the rocks so I can get back out there. I have slightly limited mobility, and the shoulder will never be perfect, but it's much better now. My left shoulder has some problems as well, and I can tell a noticeable difference in the stability of my right one (the one I had surgery on) in comparison. Anyway...I know some people responded to my post about a year ago when I put this up, and just wanted to let you all know that while surgery is always risky, and almost never a perfect fix, it can definitely be a big help....so there's hope...that's all...happy climbing.
cheers
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aerili
Feb 13, 2007, 8:39 PM
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Although I never read your original post, good to hear you are doing so much better.
You might have the same problem I do, except mine is more of a multi-joint issue, although it manifests markedly in my shoulders: a genetic ligamentous laxity problem called multi-directional connective tissue. I have sublux issues as well when I'm climbing at times. At first climbing made the instability worse, but having the sports med background/training that I do, I tried to force myself to do the tedious stabilizer strengthening to some regular degree. Strangely enough, once I started crack climbing frequently, it eventually seemed to make my rotator cuff stronger. I supplement this with a few sets of external shoulder rotator exercises every week in the gym (I'm too lazy to do internal rotators and they are always stronger than their antagonists anyway) plus focused shoulder retractor exercises with only moderate weight.
Sounds like they probably tightened up the capsule around your shoulder joint with a laser--it kind of "shrink wraps" the capsule, you could say, and helps prevent the humeral head from popping out so easily.
I would recommend doing some exercises similar to what I do in the gym as a minimum, ad nauseum for life, and hopefully they will keep your stabilizer strength maintained from your long days of PT, as they seem to be doing for me. 
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jms
Feb 13, 2007, 10:10 PM
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Glad to hear things are going so well for you! It's really nice to see posts like this, as I am currently going through physio to try and strengthen the muscles holding my humerus in place right now. I have the same problem, my ligaments are so loose they don't hold my shoulders properly, and climbing has only aggravated it, causing a lot of pain and forced time off. Probably doesn't help that when I was a kid, I would often dislocate them myself once I found out I could do it!
So far I've had an ultrasound (hear about that this week) to see whether I've torn anything, and it's looking like lots of physio for a while. Not climbing is just killing me! Fingers crossed I'm good for the summer, and I can take on my projects from last year quickly!
Do you know what they did for you with the surgery regarding ligaments? I'm a little curious, because I'm worried it may come to that eventually.
Anyway, I hope your healing goes well, and you can get out and wreak havoc soon!
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skidawg
Apr 26, 2007, 5:52 AM
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Thanks for the support guys...sorry I'm replying so late to this. I gues I thought for some reasom I would get notified if there were new posts on a forum I started...maybe that's possible and I'm just not sure how to do it. Anyway...I still haven't had the chance to climb yet actually, but it does feel much better...little sore sometimes, and tight, but more secure. Jms, hope your ultrasound goes well. I'm sorry I can't really give you any specifics because I really don't understand it too much myself, but I simply have loose joints...like you I could rotate my shoulders out of place when I was younger, and I'm sure that didn't help. I don't know if I mentioned this yet or not, but about a year ago, I crashed on my bike, and tore the lebrum (sp?) and dented the end of the arm bone (that's connected to the shoulder bone.....seriously....clueless about the specifics). With the already loose joints, torn lebrum, and dent in the end of my bone that meant it would slip out very easily, then would notch in the dent until I pulled it back. They basically cut my arm almost half way off, sewed the lebrum back together, then I believe also tightened the legaments in there too. To test the lebrum, they first did a (oh good lord...I can't even remember the name of the machine they put me in...finals week is taxing my brain)...but they injected my shoulder capsul with a dye, then put me in an MRI machine (think it was). Also did a bunch of xrays and stuff. I did physical therapy for a while to try and tighten things up, and it helped a little, but my shoulders were bad enough, if I was going to climb anymore, surgery was really my only option (lasers to tighten the capsul was an optiuon prior to tearing my lebrum too I think, but my doc suggested surgery after the lebrum tear). I fell ice climbing out of a crevass half way through my 30day NOLS expedition, and dislicated it, in addition to that, I've had a bunch of problems sport climbing, as well as in the gym. It was a big step to take, but I figured I would not only be helping meself, but making it less of a chance that I would put my buddies in danger if I had trouble on belay etc... I guess I sort of rambled on without much specifics there...sort of busy with stuff this week, but if you'd like to know more, or any specifics at all, please feel free to ask and I'd be happy to asnwer (I'll even talk to the doc to get more specifics...PM me or leave a message here). Good luck, and hope all's well, and that you all can get to climbing as much as you are itching to do....back to studying....and daydreaming about climbing 
cheers,
Justin
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