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hosh
Feb 19, 2007, 1:33 AM
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So what's the word on the street? Zeros? Micro camalots (older style)? Aliens? C3's? Smaller friends? TCU's? Just wanted to get a feel for what the general public thinks about this. I know that I've got my personal preference, I like Aliens, don't like the new C3's much. I'm particularlly interested in the older camalots (.1-.4, to be specific), as I don't like the C3's and if the C3's are supposed to be an improvement, the older ones must have realy sucked...
hosh.
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notapplicable
Feb 19, 2007, 1:49 AM
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TCU's for me but its more brand loyalty and over all construction preference than anything else. Never tried the new C3's though.
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styndall
Feb 19, 2007, 1:57 AM
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I'm fond of my Aliens, but I've enjoyed the small Metolius cams, too.
Count me in with those who don't really dig the C3s. I hear they're good in pin scars, but I don't really climb on those much.
I'd try to climb with people who use the various styles, so you can check 'em out in person.
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RORO
Feb 19, 2007, 2:51 AM
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Just got C3's 0-2 because I got a really good deal on them with this gear shop owner/ retired guide I know. I'm supposed to be his test subject on how well they perform. Read a lot of pros and cons on them. Unfortunately haven't had the ability to use them yet as it rained the last time I was home in Vegas. Hopefully I get to try them out this week. I'll get back to you guys on them.
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kevinheiss
Feb 19, 2007, 3:20 AM
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I like TCU but I have heard Aliens are also really good.
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patto
Feb 19, 2007, 4:20 AM
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WC Zeros are awesome. Their flexibility is far better than any other cam on the market.
Flexibility is far more important than straight line strength for small horizontal placements.
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fearlessclimber
Feb 19, 2007, 4:40 AM
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i love my wild country zeros, one of them caught a 15 footer with no problem.
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kane_schutzman
Feb 19, 2007, 4:41 AM
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God they are flexible, Zero's that is. I have not been able to use mine yet, but I am curious about them myself.
(This post was edited by kane_schutzman on Feb 19, 2007, 4:49 AM)
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grampacharlie
Feb 19, 2007, 5:05 AM
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Still a little shaken about alien's quality control. I do like the new c3's, but in all likelyhood, I'll stick to nuts.
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hosh
Feb 19, 2007, 5:07 AM
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Um, sorry... Aliens have more flex than the Zeros. At least that's what it seems to me...
Any comparison between the older camalots (.1, .2, .3) and the C3's? I'm mainly interested in the difference between those two. And what about the upgrade in the new MEtolius cams, the ultralights vs the old TCU's?
hosh.
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kane_schutzman
Feb 19, 2007, 5:18 AM
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hosh wrote: Um, sorry... Aliens have more flex than the Zeros. At least that's what it seems to me...
No,
When my alians get back from CCH I ll take you a picture showing flexibility. The Zero wins
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josephgdawson
Feb 19, 2007, 5:34 AM
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I love my Aliens. They are great pieces up through the Orange Alien. Blue, green, yellow, grey, and red are bitchin pieces.
I have only heard negative reports on the new C3s from people who have used them in the fields. I have never placed a C3, but all you have to do is look at how short they are to figure out that they are not a very veratile piece.
The argument on whether Aliens or Zeros are more flexible is just silly. On both brands of cams you can take the lobes and bend them through the loops on the stem and then bend them some more. How much more flex do you need? How the hell are you placing them that you need more bend than that?
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a.a.
Feb 19, 2007, 5:58 AM
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Old style bd's pretty much suck. They are too wide too fit in lot of thin placements.
I really like both aliens and zeros. Not a big fan of the c3 I have. There was one time where it was pretty solid in a funky scar that no other cam would fit in, but for the most part it isn't that useful.
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kane_schutzman
Feb 19, 2007, 6:03 AM
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Come to think of it, I am comparing my Purple alians to the freaking Zeros. You may be right, I gotta get the smallest alians or equavilant to compare!
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jsj42
Feb 19, 2007, 6:26 AM
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hosh wrote: Still no word on the old camalots? .1? .2? .3?
The 0.3 is still made and excellent. I prefer it to a green Alien and blue TCU in almost all situations.
I've taken many falls on my 0.2's and I love this piece. I generally like it better than my blue Alien and purple TCU.
I've placed but never fallen on my 0.1's, thank god. I think I prefer grey FCU's however. I think the black Alien is totally jingus.
I've also climbed a fair bit with C3's though don't own any.
You know, honestly, when it comes down to the 0.2 Camalot/blue Alien/purple TCU size and smaller, it's good to have a selection of each. Cracks this small sometimes accept one but not another. That said, if I had to make generalizations they would be as follows:
Cam stops are better than none (this is why small Aliens are sketch).
Four lobes are better than three (this is why TCU's aren't ideal).
Between the two 3-cam units (C3's and TCU's) I like the C3's better because the springs are so tight the lobes don't move much at all and because they have significantly more surface area in contact with the rock.
But like I said, when things get this small sometimes one piece, even the worst piece on paper, will fit better than the others.
And to the guy who said, "I'll just stick with small nuts"... well... that's great if your climb takes nut placements.
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patto
Feb 19, 2007, 12:12 PM
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josephgdawson wrote: The argument on whether Aliens or Zeros are more flexible is just silly. On both brands of cams you can take the lobes and bend them through the loops on the stem and then bend them some more. How much more flex do you need? How the hell are you placing them that you need more bend than that?
That is FALSE.
Flexibility is important because it reduces the torque on the placement. The most important aspect is how close the flex is to the base. WC Zeros have a head that is over three times shorter than Aliens. Thus Zeros are far more flexible where it counts.
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phugganut
Feb 19, 2007, 12:43 PM
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I have a mix of Aliens, TCU's, Zeros, tech Friends, & Clogs in those sizes and generally use the Aliens and/or Zeros with an occasional TCU. Never liked the micro Camalots much, despite having placed many. After using the new C3's a bit I like them, but not as much as the others. Nuts often work well also.
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dynosore
Feb 19, 2007, 1:40 PM
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ballnutz
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granite_grrl
Feb 19, 2007, 2:31 PM
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hosh wrote: And what about the upgrade in the new MEtolius cams, the ultralights vs the old TCU's?
Mmmmmm, TCUs. I'm okay with Aliens too, but I don't think they'll replae my TCU's.
My husband sheared the cam stops off my old purple TCU while practicing aiding. He replaced with the new style. The new style is dead sexy. Big differences is you have better visability of the cam lobes while placing them and the cams stops seem beefier.
Haven't gotten too much of a chance to use it though. He only got it for me last spring and then I hurt myself late last summer.
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anykineclimb
Feb 19, 2007, 3:39 PM
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yeah, I really like the ultralight TCUs. and FCUs for that matter. the granite grrl is right the connection is WAY smaller now and you can see the lobes better.
for the small stuff, I like TCUs and Aliens. Zeros are almost TOO flexy. especially when cleaning.
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chalkfree
Feb 19, 2007, 3:50 PM
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I've got Tcu's and C3's. I've climbed on most of the little guys on the market, and I have to say that I really love my C3's.
They fit anyplace a TCU will, and alot of places one won't. I've also put them in several in places where an alien wouldn't fit. I for one wouldn't trade my C3s for anything else on the market.
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on_belay_hombre
Feb 19, 2007, 6:08 PM
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I have climbed with all of the above save the old C3s. And I have some opnions on the gear:
Metolius TCU/FCU - Steardier and more stable than most, less flexible than Alien or Zero but an all around positive piece.
New C3 - Trigger is hard to pull (pain in the ass when pumped), small head is nice, solid placement, wires are protected and solid placement in general.
Zero - Solid when placed, Uber flexible which is good in theory but the fact that it is a single stem causes some problems. The head tends to get twisted (particularly after a fall) and they dont go back straight, so when you have to place, it becomes awkward since the head doesnt line up anymore. Ive also had a few fail on me (only ones to ever do so), but this was earlier in my aiding/leading and may have been operator error...
Aliens - awesome on all counts save the manufacturing reliability (i dont know much about it other than they had a recall)
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chanceboarder
Feb 19, 2007, 6:44 PM
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So I own Aliens, C3's, and Metolious Ultra light TCU's. My preference when I need a cam to fit in a small placement goes to my Aliens. If I don't have an Alien handy that will fit I'll place my C3's next. As for the 2 Metolious Ultralight TCU's I have, I do not even carry them on lead. I just don't like them, I think the stem length is way too short making them very hard to handle for anyone who has big hands. I'm also not a fan of u-stem cams and want something much more flexible. If no Aliens or C3's are handy then I'm reaching for my small stoppers, micro stoppers or Ballnutz.
Jason
(This post was edited by chanceboarder on Feb 19, 2007, 6:45 PM)
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