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deltav
Feb 20, 2007, 5:37 PM
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I am buying my first pair of 1/2 ropes and just wondering what other people use.
Thanks
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mtselman
Feb 20, 2007, 8:28 PM
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Beal Ice Line. (Use for Alpine and Ice Climbing)
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drzaous
Feb 22, 2007, 11:58 PM
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Ditto, on the Beal Ice Lines. They aren't the most durable, but they are wicked light, have a great hand, and are the lowest impact force doubles you can buy.
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crotch
Feb 23, 2007, 12:52 AM
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drzaous
Feb 23, 2007, 9:09 AM
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Just add another HMS biner for more friction, does the same thing a 'petite' device will do, but for free.
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paulraphael
Feb 26, 2007, 4:12 PM
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crotch wrote: I've played around with 8mm ropes on full-sized but high-friction devices like the ATC guide and find that they don't generate enough friction for my taste. Try a free-hanging rap on 8mm cords with a device meant for single ropes and then think about holding a F2 fall on one strand with that device.
I haven't tried the guide. I find the Trango b-52 acceptable with skinny ropes (it actually produces a bit more friction than it does with medium ropes) but for a long day out with skinny doubles the trango jaws is my favorite. With the brake strands going through the notches it has tons of stopping power, and it's reasonably smooth.
I weigh over 200 lbs with a pack on, so a lot of devices don't have enough friction to make me comfortable on rappel. The jaws is also a great "girlfriend device" ... if you climb with someone who's a lot lighter than you, and if they're not used to catching your fat ass, it's nice to be able to offer them the jaws. Makes everyone breathe a bit easier.
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mtselman
Feb 26, 2007, 4:16 PM
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crotch wrote: Regardless of which rope you choose, I'd recommend that you pick up a belay device designed specifically for skinny ropes. The DMM Bugette is extremely light and provides plenty of friction on the smallest of skinnies. Petzl's Reversino does a fine job too. I've played around with 8mm ropes on full-sized but high-friction devices like the ATC guide and find that they don't generate enough friction for my taste. Try a free-hanging rap on 8mm cords with a device meant for single ropes and then think about holding a F2 fall on one strand with that device.
Good point about belay device. As far as your comment about holding F2 fall on a single strand - one should never allow for such fall to occur as a 1/2 rope is not designed to hold F2 falls (of a bodyweight...)
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robojeda
Feb 26, 2007, 4:30 PM
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Edelweiss Calanques 8.5 60m. Solid set of cords. Durable.
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reno
Feb 26, 2007, 5:05 PM
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crotch wrote: Regardless of which rope you choose, I'd recommend that you pick up a belay device designed specifically for skinny ropes. The DMM Bugette is extremely light and provides plenty of friction on the smallest of skinnies. Petzl's Reversino does a fine job too.
My only objection to this is that you might end up in a situation where you're rapping thicker ropes, and your belay device can't accept them.
Two years ago, a friend and I were in Wyoming, climbing the Cirque of the Towers. During the descent, we came up to another party who graciously gave us permission to rap their ropes (they were already set up.) We had been using 8.5 doubles, and if we'd have had a Reversino, we would not have been able to rap their 10.5 ropes.
Yeah, we could have just set up our own, and yeah, this is a unique situation, but the point stands...
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drzaous
Feb 26, 2007, 8:36 PM
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...again, a situation completely solved with two HMS biners and a standard sized belay device...
I am all about versatility, expecially in Alpine Rock/Ice Climbing which is where you would be using doubles to begin with...
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reno
Feb 26, 2007, 8:58 PM
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drzaous wrote: ...again, a situation completely solved with two HMS biners and a standard sized belay device...
Uh, yeah. I agree with you, in case that wasn't clear.
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drzaous
Feb 26, 2007, 9:01 PM
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Yeah, I figured you were... I was just trying to drive home the point to everyone else that "petite" belay devices are just marketing hype, or at the very least, for roadside climbing on skinny ropes (which is a pretty limited usage field)...
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brent_e
Feb 27, 2007, 3:08 AM
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paulraphael wrote: crotch wrote: I've played around with 8mm ropes on full-sized but high-friction devices like the ATC guide and find that they don't generate enough friction for my taste. Try a free-hanging rap on 8mm cords with a device meant for single ropes and then think about holding a F2 fall on one strand with that device. I haven't tried the guide. I find the Trango b-52 acceptable with skinny ropes (it actually produces a bit more friction than it does with medium ropes) but for a long day out with skinny doubles the trango jaws is my favorite. With the brake strands going through the notches it has tons of stopping power, and it's reasonably smooth. I weigh over 200 lbs with a pack on, so a lot of devices don't have enough friction to make me comfortable on rappel. The jaws is also a great "girlfriend device" ... if you climb with someone who's a lot lighter than you, and if they're not used to catching your fat ass, it's nice to be able to offer them the jaws. Makes everyone breathe a bit easier.
have you used your B52 in autoblock mode??? I'm interested in getting one and wonder how well this works? I am currently using a reverso but like trango stuff!
for doubles i'm trying a 9.1 Joker and 8.6mm cobra II
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dbrown000
Feb 27, 2007, 3:18 AM
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i have blue water excellence 8.5's. they're light and handle nice, and seem not to twist and tangle as much ( now that ive said/written something about that the next time i use em im sure its going to be a cluster..oh well)
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stymingersfink
Feb 27, 2007, 3:56 AM
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brent_e wrote: have you used your B52 in autoblock mode??? I'm interested in getting one and wonder how well this works? I am currently using a reverso but like trango stuff!
B52?
i've got one that sits unused at the bottom of my gear pile. I traded it new for a spare XP when they were still fairly new, in the theory that I should at least try other belay devices. Wasn't too fond of it's auto-block feature as it is currently designed, as it requires either two biners to clip to the anchor with, or else it tends to sit cockeyed.
my reverso and reversino are also sitting at the bottom of a pile of no longer used stuff if anyone is interested.
the real question is why are they there?
XP-Guide. Autoblock-able, capable of handling down to the skinniest of the skinny even on rapell yet still works great on my 10.5 summer rope too.
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paulraphael
Feb 27, 2007, 5:36 AM
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brent_e wrote: have you used your B52 in autoblock mode??? I'm interested in getting one and wonder how well this works? I am currently using a reverso but like trango stuff!
I have but not extensively. My sense is that it works about the same as the reverso/reversino and the guide xp as far as the major considerations. The guide xp might be a little more refined, and it has a tab that supposedly helps unlock the system under load.
In general, I'd be hesitant to use any of these autoblocking systems in a guiding situation ... or any your second is likely to fall or need to be lowered. All of the efficiency and time and energy savings go flying out the window if you have to deal with this.
I don't think the 2 carabiner deal on the b-52 is a problem. if you're using 2 biners (which you should for double ropes) they don't have to be lockers. any same-sized biners from your rack, with gates opposed, will work. trango spells this out clearly in their instructions.
From what I've read, the guide xp is probably a bit better designed than the b-52, but it's also heavier. the b-52 has some advantages if you alpine routes and don't want any extra metal.
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brent_e
Feb 27, 2007, 3:59 PM
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Reno, Stymingersfink, paulfaphael,
Thanks all for the info. I'm still curious to find out for myself how she works! Stymingersfink, I pm'd you.
Thanks again
Brent
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granite_grrl
Feb 27, 2007, 4:04 PM
Post #20 of 28
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stymingersfink wrote: brent_e wrote: have you used your B52 in autoblock mode??? I'm interested in getting one and wonder how well this works? I am currently using a reverso but like trango stuff! B52? i've got one that sits unused at the bottom of my gear pile. I traded it new for a spare XP when they were still fairly new, in the theory that I should at least try other belay devices. Wasn't too fond of it's auto-block feature as it is currently designed, as it requires either two biners to clip to the anchor with, or else it tends to sit cockeyed. my reverso and reversino are also sitting at the bottom of a pile of no longer used stuff if anyone is interested. the real question is why are they there? XP-Guide. Autoblock-able, capable of handling down to the skinniest of the skinny even on rapell yet still works great on my 10.5 summer rope too.
Its funny 'cause the only only reason Brent has a Reverso is because my husband gave it to him. He didn't want it anymore once he played with the XP-guide :D.
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scrapedape
Feb 27, 2007, 4:14 PM
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paulraphael wrote: brent_e wrote: have you used your B52 in autoblock mode??? I'm interested in getting one and wonder how well this works? I am currently using a reverso but like trango stuff! I have but not extensively. My sense is that it works about the same as the reverso/reversino and the guide xp as far as the major considerations. The guide xp might be a little more refined, and it has a tab that supposedly helps unlock the system under load. In general, I'd be hesitant to use any of these autoblocking systems in a guiding situation ... or any your second is likely to fall or need to be lowered. All of the efficiency and time and energy savings go flying out the window if you have to deal with this. I don't think the 2 carabiner deal on the b-52 is a problem. if you're using 2 biners (which you should for double ropes) they don't have to be lockers. any same-sized biners from your rack, with gates opposed, will work. trango spells this out clearly in their instructions. From what I've read, the guide xp is probably a bit better designed than the b-52, but it's also heavier. the b-52 has some advantages if you alpine routes and don't want any extra metal.
I've been happy with my B-52 overall. However, the lighter weight is kind of negated by the need for 2 biners to hang it in autoblock mode when using double ropes. I'm not 100% comfortable with the braking power, though it seems comparable to a standard ATC. I'm planning to try out the ATC Guide at some point and see how I like that.
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paulraphael
Feb 27, 2007, 4:51 PM
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I think the extra biner would only factor into the weight if you actually brough an extra one for this purpose. but i've never had to ... i always have at least a biner or 2 extra that i can use for this.
when my b-52 wears out i might try the guide xp ... maybe it will be great enough that the extra couple of ounces will be worth it.
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crotch
Feb 27, 2007, 5:14 PM
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drzaous wrote: Yeah, I figured you were... I was just trying to drive home the point to everyone else that "petite" belay devices are just marketing hype, or at the very least, for roadside climbing on skinny ropes (which is a pretty limited usage field)...
"Petite" devices are lighter than their big brothers. Adding a 2nd HMS biner to a full-sized device imposes a further weight penalty, as I don't normally carry 2 HMS crabs. If I wasn't concerned about weight, I wouldn't be climbing on ropes that weigh in at 41g/m. Devices made specifically for skinny ropes are at their best *away* from the road. And if you ever need to rap a bigger line, a carabiner break will perform admirably, provided you know how to rig one.
Holding an F2 fall on a single strand is a possibility with a double rope system. Consider a fall while clipping the first piece.
(This post was edited by crotch on Feb 27, 2007, 5:18 PM)
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mtselman
Feb 27, 2007, 7:24 PM
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crotch wrote: Holding an F2 fall on a single strand is a possibility with a double rope system. Consider a fall while clipping the first piece.
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crotch
Feb 27, 2007, 7:32 PM
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mtselman wrote: crotch wrote: Holding an F2 fall on a single strand is a possibility with a double rope system. Consider a fall while clipping the first piece. Wouldn't it be a fall on two strands in this case?
If the leader is pulling up slack on one strand to clip the first piece, then one strand will be longer than the other and the fall would be held only on the shorter strand until the rope slipped or stretched enough to engage the second strand.
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) but it worked fine in Autoblock AS LONG AS the anchor was above you when you reached the belay. 
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