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joe
Nov 11, 2006, 12:05 AM
Post #26 of 42
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In reply to: I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
yes, many. unfortunately, you're a gym climbing wanker so i'll not waste anymore bandwidth trying to splain it to you.
In reply to: Maybe I don't get it.
ps. "hiring" someone to photograph you soloing is the weakest shit ever. it'd been funny to see that myspace fruitcake deck from his Stalloney dyno on that sport route. fucking kook.
(This post was edited by joe on Feb 24, 2007, 2:58 PM)
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kostik
Feb 23, 2007, 6:44 PM
Post #27 of 42
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Btw, dbrayack, did the aforementioned kid arrange with you recently for a new photo session of himself soling another 5.13?
(This post was edited by kostik on Feb 23, 2007, 6:46 PM)
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zeke_sf
Feb 23, 2007, 7:04 PM
Post #28 of 42
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Soloing: the hot button topic of all time. Well, that and dogs at the crag.
I believe if you are soloing, you probably know why. If you are so light as to get socially pressured into soloing, then an extended stay at the hospital or a nice, long dirt nap is a just dessert. R.I. to the mothurfuckin' P., dumbass.
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trenchdigger
Feb 23, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #29 of 42
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[quote "dbrayack"]Well...now that that cat's out of the bag...[/quote]
Shocker... I'm sure nobody here would have guessed.
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reg
Feb 23, 2007, 7:06 PM
Post #30 of 42
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that sure as hell dosen't look like a 10 unless the jump is the 10. the rest looks 7ish
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guangzhou
Feb 25, 2007, 8:54 AM
Post #31 of 42
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Climbing is wonderful and full of personal choices.
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petsfed
Feb 25, 2007, 1:56 PM
Post #32 of 42
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In reply to: Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant.
Then you never will get it. The point of soloing has never been to just increase the risk. The point was to force you into that mental stance where you had to focus 100% on what you were doing at all times. The experience is very similar to a meditative trance. People make mistakes when they convince themselves that they have a route wired because they get careless. They remember a hold differently, they act more dynamically when a static move has a lower chance of failure (or vice versa). When people operate like they were on-sighting a route, they tend to climb more carefully and conservatively.
I don't really see how a 17 year old could somehow be less aware than an 18 year old (since we're making the minor differentiation) of where that limit is, especially if either is capable of sending 13b. If the photographer didn't encourage the soloing, its not really the photographer's fault if the person dies whilst soloing.
To use an anology that panders directly to the soloing=selfish-suicide crowd, you can't sue a rope maker for making rope readily available for hanging oneself, so long as the rope manufacturer doesn't endorse the hanging. It was stated that the person would solo the route whether a photographer was there or not, so I don't see what difference it makes.
(This post was edited by petsfed on Feb 25, 2007, 1:57 PM)
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sausalito
Feb 25, 2007, 3:38 PM
Post #33 of 42
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I could care less if someone solos but I think the same of someone that rides a motorcycle without a helmet. If you get hurt your insurance should not have to take the brunt of the costs and if you have no insurance? Well then I think the hospital should only be obliged to keep you pain free until you pass on. No invasive surgery at all.
People talk this idividual reasons for taking all sorts of risks.... as a trauma RN it maddens me to see EASILY avoidable situations. However I am not for telling someone what to do... but if you take those risks I think you should have to live or die with the consequences. That also goes for people that take the risk of smoking, eating poorly and so on.....
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marckylove
Feb 26, 2007, 2:19 AM
Post #34 of 42
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[quote "karma"]Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
Just because a climber has "wired" a climb does not mean that something could go wrong, that a hold has changed, loosened or that moisture has seeped into a pocket or crack. Maybe I don't get it, like modern art, but the act of willfully foregoing protection in a sport that is known for biting back hard just seems ridiculously ignorant.
I raced motorcycles for years and never once heard a rider say that they want to go racing in the nude because it will be more [i]pure[/i] than racing in full leathers and gear. You protect yourself as much as you can because when you are the most comfortable, the most [i]wired[/i], that is when you are most likely to loose the front, brake a little too deep or crack the throttle a little too early.[/quote]
You simply cannot understand it until you do it yourself. If you have not done it, you cannot bash it.. it's that simple.
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kostik
Feb 26, 2007, 3:13 PM
Post #35 of 42
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I have no doubt that the young man in question can solo 5.13b. He is a very strong climber and he is fearless. I also agree that for some people soloing has enormous zen value. However, the real, legal world is rather dull.
What may happen to a photographer if a teenager dies during his commercial photosession? Waiver or no waiver. Will the editors continue doing business with this photographer? Not to mention a possible lawsuit from kid's parents and a prospect of meeting with his two big brothers.
The young man wants to get his picture in a magazine and make a few hundred bucks along with it. There is nothing wrong about it. Why don't you show him the ways to do this without risking his life, like doing 20 5.14s during the summer or something like that? You are an adult, you are a pro in publishing business, you have his ear. It's like an old soldier preventing a young one from needlessly risking his life. Think about it.
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j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 3:58 PM
Post #36 of 42
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kostik wrote: I have no doubt that the young man in question can solo 5.13b. He is a very strong climber and he is fearless. I also agree that for some people soloing has enormous zen value. However, the real, legal world is rather dull. What may happen to a photographer if a teenager dies during his commercial photosession? Waiver or no waiver. Will the editors continue doing business with this photographer? Not to mention a possible lawsuit from kid's parents and a prospect of meeting with his two big brothers. The young man wants to get his picture in a magazine and make a few hundred bucks along with it. There is nothing wrong about it. Why don't you show him the ways to do this without risking his life, like doing 20 5.14s during the summer or something like that? You are an adult, you are a pro in publishing business, you have his ear. It's like an old soldier preventing a young one from needlessly risking his life. Think about it.
1. The kid said he would solo the route with or without the photos.
2. Regardless of whether or not he's underage, dbrayack isn't his parent and wasn't acting as his guardian at the crag.
3. There was no prior arrangement to sell the photo to Rock & Ice. dbrayack, came home and said, "I got shots of somebody soling Bohica. Hey, I wonder if R&I might be interested."
4. Climbers don't get paid for their photos in mags. Photographers get paid for selling them afterward.
So, before you continue to argue (in writing and in public) that dbrayack endangered a minor's life for money, I suggest you, in turn, consider the legal ramifications of libel, which might make the real, legal world a bit less dull for you.
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dbrayack
Feb 26, 2007, 4:22 PM
Post #38 of 42
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karma wrote: Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you?
I solo stuff alot...especially at my previos home crag; I don't really tell anyone about it, however, except for my close friends. Its a good way to get in a lot of mileage, + it helps to desensitive Tard and Sport leading...
(This post was edited by dbrayack on Feb 26, 2007, 4:23 PM)
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j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 4:59 PM
Post #39 of 42
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dbrayack wrote: karma wrote: Personally, I feel that publishing photos of someone soloing a route is supporting self destructive behaviour. I've read about why people solo but I think it is all bunk. The act is nothing more than ego massage and a means of being disgustingly self serving. I have never once heard a good reason for soloing a route. Have you? I solo stuff alot...especially at my previos home crag; I don't really tell anyone about it, however, except for my close friends. Its a good way to get in a lot of mileage, + it helps to desensitive Tard and Sport leading...
Don't bother, Dan.
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dhaulagiri
Feb 26, 2007, 8:08 PM
Post #40 of 42
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Registered: Sep 29, 2003
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Or what do you tell all the other young kids standing around at the very popular crag if their friend falls and kills himself right in front of them.
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j_ung
Feb 26, 2007, 10:32 PM
Post #41 of 42
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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"Avoid the loose block below the anchor"?
(This post was edited by j_ung on Feb 26, 2007, 10:33 PM)
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petsfed
Feb 27, 2007, 1:30 AM
Post #42 of 42
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Registered: Sep 25, 2002
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j_ung wrote: "Avoid the loose block below the anchor"?
LOL!!
So hilariously cynical it needs to be quoted
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