|
wanderlustmd
Feb 27, 2007, 3:34 PM
Post #1 of 29
(6566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
I've learned and practiced basics of big wall rope systems a while (1.5 years) back and am starting to revisit it for future use, etc. However, I don't know very much about overnight rigging and portaledge use. If I remember correctly, the standard method for “sub-anchoring” while using a portaledge is tying off extra long with the rope and using an ascender daisied short to the harness for adjusting tension to the anchor point while moving around, etc. Is this how you are tied off while sleeping, or do you tie the rope off short directly to the anchor via a clove hitch etc. ( ie no ascender involved) with the original tie-in as a backup?
Or....do you leave the long tie-off as it was and just attach yourself short with the daisy directly to the ledge as your taut “sleeping anchor” while having the longer rope as your backup and main connection?
Thanks,
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
salamanizer
Feb 27, 2007, 4:09 PM
Post #2 of 29
(6536 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2004
Posts: 879
|
Any of those methods will work. You'll just have to find out which one works best for you and that you feel safe with. Personally I don't like a bunch of stuff ( accenders, prussic etc...) attached to me while I'm trying to sleep.
I like to tie in long... not go for a stroll long, you're on a ledge, how far can you go?... then detach my leg loops and just rely on the swami waist loop of my harness. Its so much more comfortable not having your full harness on.
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Feb 27, 2007, 6:08 PM
Post #3 of 29
(6516 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Any time you are at risk of falling, you don't want your only attachment to have a toothed ascender anywhere between you and the anchor point.
If you fall off a natural ledge (it happens) tip off of your portaledge, or have a foot slip while you are traversing along, you could take the ride to the deck.
On the other hand, using a grigri attached to your waist is a nice way to shorten/lengthen your tether to your main powerpoint.
When I'm at a bivy/station, I give myself a 15-20 foot "personal anchor". This is a section of rope thats attatched to me at the tie-in point and to the anchor via TWO biners that are obviously mine. This (sort of) prevents someone else from undoing my attachment to the anchor when moving ropes around, etc.
At the bivy, its good to stay tied into this rope via the swami of your harness. You can remove your leg loops for sleeping comfort, just don't drop them.
However, when I bivy it is with a swami tied with 3 inch webbing clipped with two lockers into a bight on my "personal anchor". My harness stays tied into the end of my "personal anchor" but is not on my body, cause I can't sleep with it on. I can't really drop the harness with this system, or drop myself. The swami stays with my portaledge, cilpped to the powerpoint.
Its a wide piece of webbing so it doesn't rip me in half if I pitch out of the ledge for whatever reason. Also, there's a shoulder length sling clipped innto the biners so that if I need to get on the rope when dangling there I can. :)
You may not think you could fall out of your ledge. But you can:
* Some anchors have a schitty rivit to hang the ledge from off to the side. You'll be amazed how good this idea seems when your bivy is all clustered. You'll hang from it...wondering.
* I set up my ledge behind a giant loose block one night, not realizing it. (DUMB DUMB DUMB) and could have taken a nice little ride.
*: If you are solo on a double ledge, a big gust can dump you out. Happened to a friend of mine.
* Your partner suddenly unweighting one side of the ledge could send you for a ride.
The important thing is to be always set up in a way that you can't go to the deck, you can get back to the anchor, and you won't break your ribs in the process.
:)
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Feb 27, 2007, 7:18 PM
Post #4 of 29
(6483 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
that pretty much covers it kate. Hadn't thought about keeping a sling handy to get back on the rope with though. Thanks for the tip!
The funny thing (to me) is, my first time on a wall (or aiding, FTM) I was too sketched to remove my leg-loops, which meant I slept uncomfortably at best. It took a while to get comfortable with the whole sleeping-in-a-swami thing, but now I wouldn't do it any other way.
|
|
|
|
|
alexmac
Feb 27, 2007, 7:27 PM
Post #5 of 29
(6475 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 550
|
Thank you, very helpful
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Feb 28, 2007, 12:15 AM
Post #6 of 29
(6428 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
I keep a couple of 12ish foot pieces of 10.5mm permanently tied into the cabana rigging plate. when bedding down for the night i tie into this rope and add a locker to the rigging plate, then use a clove hitch to adjust length.
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Feb 28, 2007, 9:03 AM
Post #7 of 29
(6404 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
I actually sleep best under a tiny bit of tension. When I wake up I know I can use it to maneuvre myself around, and my mind is easy not worrying about any of those other *'d out possabilities.
Getting dumped in a random updraft would probably make me loose my mind. Capsizing the ledge on your friend, however, sounds like something that the old timers did just to haze each other for shits and grins. Glad I'm not an old timer just yet. 
My waist band bugs me more than my leg loops, so if I take anything off, it's the whole thing (and I tie in w/ a swami made of web-o-lette) although I've only done this on natural ledges where the probability of falling is vanishingly small.
Being of the female urinary persuasion and having never learned the finer points of freshette usage, I need to bail over the side in the night to pee, and this is best accomplished for me w/ a full harness.
I stay tied into the power point of the anchor with the rope, and under tension w/ a daisy or somesuch to the ledge which is often at a higher peice in the anchor (always a 3/8" bolt for me) so that it doesn't end up out of reach.
Once someone is presented with the opportunity to hang on a single rivet to sleep, they've probably got their preferences for tieing in figured out. Staying tied in at the power point, more than once, with lockers, and an agreement between partners to not unclip things from that location w/o checking it out w/ each other probably will keep most folks off the deck and sleeping fairly soundly.
|
|
|
|
|
wanderlustmd
Feb 28, 2007, 4:06 PM
Post #8 of 29
(6367 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
Thanks for the detailed responses everyone. Now who wants to help a wall noob up his first wall?
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Feb 28, 2007, 7:24 PM
Post #10 of 29
(6341 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
An opportunity to climb with Moof must not be missed! And if WLM doesn't come thru, I'd be happy to meet you there, Mr. Moof!
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Feb 28, 2007, 7:30 PM
Post #11 of 29
(6332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
holdplease2 wrote: An opportunity to climb with Moof must not be missed! And if WLM doesn't come thru, I'd be happy to meet you there, Mr. Moof! -Kate.
Can't be sure if you are being sarcastic, or are mistaking me for some other Moof?! Either way, it would be a blast to climb with you!
(This post was edited by moof on Feb 28, 2007, 7:32 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Feb 28, 2007, 7:45 PM
Post #12 of 29
(6324 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Huh.
I may be mistaking you for another Moof. Do you have a tattoo on your leg? Either way, I'll climb with you, as I would like to do that route. :)
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Feb 28, 2007, 8:25 PM
Post #13 of 29
(6316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
holdplease2 wrote: Huh. I may be mistaking you for another Moof. Do you have a tattoo on your leg? Either way, I'll climb with you, as I would like to do that route. :) -Kate.
Nope, I never got around to getting tattooed. But if you want to go up Mideast Crisis, I'm in!
I'll warn you that in my last outing I only got about 4 1/3 pitches up it going solo. I frigged up my hand falling past the anchor, and decided I wanted to give up. Gear was hard to inspect in the oozing muck on P5, and I popped 3 pieces (having backcleaned a little more to boot). There may still be an offset up there that I bailed off of. It looked like it was about to get a lot better at that point too 
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Feb 28, 2007, 9:03 PM
Post #14 of 29
(6295 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Cool, Moof. The tattoo Q was to see if you were my friend Moof that I know from before.
I bail when I fall past the anchor, too... So we have that in common. Haha.
I'll lead the fifth...soas I can booty your offset! ;) (kidding, if you want the lead that's cool.)
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Feb 28, 2007, 9:45 PM
Post #15 of 29
(6275 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
I'll have to post the couple pics I got on that trip. One was looking back up after falling, kind of gives me the willies a little still. It was a long enough fall to get in 3 renditions of "Oh F#$@!" on the way down.
When I did it I took the Planck's Roof variation to avoid the worst of the ooze on P2 and P3, and thought it was a lot of fun to aid, almost as much fun to clean. I had to leap frog the #5's through the end a ways to the anchor, then take them with me again to re-aid for cleaning. What a blast!
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Feb 28, 2007, 10:24 PM
Post #16 of 29
(6255 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
I've never seen anyone describe cleaning a traverse with such relish! Thanks for sharing a bit of great attitude w/ us all today. It was a breath of fresh air...and I really mean it!
|
|
|
|
|
wanderlustmd
Feb 28, 2007, 10:51 PM
Post #17 of 29
(6242 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
moof wrote: wanderlustmd wrote: Thanks for the detailed responses everyone. Now who wants to help a wall noob up his first wall? Depends on the wall. What are you proposing. I'm thinking of doing a trip in the last week of May, or first week of June. I have to go all the way to Sacramento for a wedding, and it would be a shame to not hit the valley. Kinda want to get back on Mideast Crisis...
Thanks for the invite, but I was being a bit tounge in cheek. I need more direct aid experience before I try a wall. I've done some multipitch aid routes on Cathedral and have soloed short singles, etc. But I don't feel I'm ready for the big stuff yet. I think after a good long season this summer I will be ready to give the South Face on the Column a shot, or Moonlight Buttress etc. But I'd love to climb in the future
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Feb 28, 2007, 11:47 PM
Post #18 of 29
(6221 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
WLMD -
If you've climbed multipitch lines, even a few, and soloed some single lines, a short wall like those on the Column might be just the thing for you!
Suggestion, though: Go do a coupla single-pitchers (ha ha) and haul a big bag of rocks. Just to get the motion down.
And the key is to find a partner who knows what they're doing. Moof might be just the guy, you never know. Its really not that hard if you have the food/water/time it takes to get to the summit.
An eleven pitch wall is just like a three pitch climb, two two pitch climbs and four single pitch climbs. Linked together. See? It ain't such a big deal.
In fact, why don't you come with us? It would be a total trip. Moof, what say you? Party 'o three? I get my own ledge, tho. :)
Alright...Moof (expedition leader), Holdplease2 (resident systems confounder), and WLMD (expedition physician) on an RC.com sponsored ascent of...what are we climbing again?
C'mon guys, we'll do a front page trip report! I'll bribe DDT!
:)
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Feb 28, 2007, 11:53 PM
Post #19 of 29
(6219 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
iamthewallress wrote: I've never seen anyone describe cleaning a traverse with such relish! Thanks for sharing a bit of great attitude w/ us all today. It was a breath of fresh air...and I really mean it!
I found that cleaning this dead horizontal roof was far preferable some of the wandering clean jobs. I ended up leading this thing a couple times out and back before I figured out what gear I could and could not leave behind as pro. I found out the hard way that I needed a ~4.5 sized piece at about the 3/4 way of the roof and had to back aid (down aid?) almost to the beginning of the roof to refrig things so I could proceed.
To lead it I was dyno swinging big fat cams as far out as I could get them. Cleaning required getting all clipped into the next piece and slackening the line to allow the inverse dyno swing to clean. Keeping the line snug kept the buggers about 3-4" out of reach. Quite the riot when out solo and NOBODY around, not even on South Face or the Prow?! Omen?
By the end of the traverse I'd blown a big hole in my shoe (previously half melted by a campfire), and had to do an extra run down to curry village for new shoes to proceed.
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Mar 1, 2007, 12:00 AM
Post #20 of 29
(6215 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
Yeah, what Kate said.
I had done maybe 4 or 5 pitches of leading on aid when I jumped on WFLT. My partner turned out to be kinda psycho for lack of a better term, and I ended up leading 9/10 pitches (depndings on how you count pitches on WFLT). It was the first time I'd hauled more than a 20 lb pack.
I will say that more than leading aid well, I think getting comfortable following traverses is more important to practice. Also know how to bail. Other than that, if you are competent on multipitch, and have a half dozen aid pitches under your belt, go for it! Plan to go slow and go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Mar 1, 2007, 1:07 AM
Post #21 of 29
(6194 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
holdplease2 wrote: WLMD (expedition physician)
The real Wanderlust M.D. doesn't aid climb, but he's got a hell of an eye. Check out some of his work. An ER doc/award winning photographer, I'd love to drag his ass up a wall sometime.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Mar 1, 2007, 1:09 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
wanderlustmd
Mar 1, 2007, 8:57 PM
Post #22 of 29
(6141 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2006
Posts: 8150
|
stymingersfink wrote: holdplease2 wrote: WLMD (expedition physician) I get the feeling MD stands for maryland. The real Wanderlust M.D. doesn't aid climb, but he's got a hell of an eye. Check out some of his work. An ER doc/ award winning photographer, I'd love to drag his ass up a wall sometime.
Acutally MD are my initials. Those are some great shots on that dude's website...
Yeah, I think you're right Moof in terms of traverses, that something I haven't followed. Most of my exp. is solid C1 with maybe a pitch of C2- / C1+. Straight head vertical cracks, etc. Haven't followed a traverse yet, but that wouldn't be a huge deal for something like the Column. I've practiced hauling water before, but I'll need a good few sessions to go through everything once again since I haven't climbed in a little while.
HP/Moof that would be a lot of fun. Like you said, just plan on taking extra time. HP, I see you're out in Cali so I'll keep you posted if/when I head in that direction. Moof, June is chock full, but maybe we can work something out...
Dammit, now I'm all excited.
|
|
|
|
|
justsendingits
Mar 3, 2007, 1:40 AM
Post #23 of 29
(6084 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 1070
|
Mideast crisis is a good route, you won't have to wait in line, but cleaning might be a problem if you don't have much experince.
Liberty cap is also a good route, easy to get to and you don't have to haul water, we replaced all lead bolts and anchor's. But I think I screwed one of the lead bolt's on the bolt ladder, meaning it is reachy, you might need to use your hammer as a cheat stick.
The ledge at pitch 9 ? is super sweet!!
The last pitch is full on 5.9 R though, but just for a 25 ft section.
Cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
blankslate
Mar 5, 2007, 3:08 AM
Post #24 of 29
(6028 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2006
Posts: 33
|
great thread!
I have a somewhat related question, so i'll just tag along on this thread....
IT seems that the pricing of BD's single and double ledges is pretty similar. I am going to start my first wall this year so am looking at getting a ledge soon.
This may sound crazy, but do people ever sleep 2 to a single ledge just to save hauling wait? Follow-up, do any solo aiders here ever go up the big rock with a double ledge just for comfort and the spread out? I am interested to hear any experiences with this....
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Mar 5, 2007, 12:38 PM
Post #25 of 29
(5978 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
no way would i volunteer to double up on a single ledge.
(even say if we substitute fantasy for reality and assume i'm climbing with some kind of lady wall hottie)
in fact, if i was to solo, i'd probobly still just take the double along for the extra room to stretch out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
