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peterk
Mar 12, 2007, 2:41 PM
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I was climbing in an indoor gym the other day and was working on a route with small finger holds. I would get to a section where I had to reach up for the next small crimp and I would always pop off.
Is my problem with my footwork or just weak fingers. I ran out of steam so I did not get to experiment. Would lifting the heel above horizontal help push me into the wall? What else should I be focusing on?
Thanks
Peter
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overlord
Mar 12, 2007, 3:10 PM
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you know, thats like crashing a car and then asking what went wrong without any other info, eg road conditions, the type of tyres, speed etc.
was the roof a 'face climb', overhanging, roof?? what exactly is the move that is the problem? 'reaching for the next crimp' is just too generic and can describe about quite a lot of moves.
your post just doesnt give enough information for a satisfactory answer. but, youre probably both too weak (or just lack power endurance; you didnt say if you poped off because you couldnt hold the hold or because you were pumped) and lack the techique. how did i conclude that? well, if you werent too weak, you would be able to stick it, and if you had the techique, you wouldve been able to describe the move in such a way that we would actually know what you meant. and, btw, no offense meant. everyone starts as a weak climber with poor technique. offcourse, i could be wrong.
my advice is... if you cant send a route in, say, five times, go work on something else. its a waste of time and effort. and pulling on routes that are way to hard for you will just slow down your progress. you need to work stuff that is hard, but climbable. offcourse, it is good to have a 'project', something to keep you going, but if you cant really pull it, work on something else, and return when youre better.
keep it up, youll get there
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dynoingfool
Mar 12, 2007, 3:54 PM
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you say you "ran out of steam" maybe power-endurance would help you? being able to do a few hard moves in a row... also, on vert. keeping your hips in close to the wall helps take weight off your fingers, until they become strong (of course, you should ALWAYS use good technique, even when you are strong. )
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peterk
Mar 12, 2007, 8:12 PM
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"and, btw, no offense meant". Classic; I find it amazing that so many posters can't help themselves. They have to crap all over a poster. No shit I'm weak. I am 40, work 70 hours a week and have to kids. That is why I asked the question. I am looking for a way to make up for my weakness by learning good technique. This is my next hurdle indoors because the 5.9s in this gym aren't crimpy, therefore are relatively easy to complete. By the way, if it would be easy, then where would the fun be?
dynoingfool - Thank you. That is great advice. I will try getting the hips closer to the wall. When I ran out of steam, I meant that my joints in the fingers started to tire. I knew I was relying too much on the finger tips to hold me on a vertical climb. Techinque is definitely the key. This is my next hurdle indoors because the 5.9s in this gym aren't crimpy, therefore are relatively easy to complete.
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jumpingrock
Mar 12, 2007, 9:17 PM
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"I find it amazing that so many posters can't help themselves" Classic; Me either. The ask inane questions without giving enough details, looking for a specific answer and the complain when they get people asking for more details and not being gentle about it.
You didn't actually ask for a way to make up for your weakness. You asked why you were falling off a particular crimper. You're 40, the internet has been around and popular for at least 1/4th of your life. You should have learned how to use it by now. Especially since you have kids. Next time have them ask or grow a thicker skin.
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peterk
Mar 12, 2007, 9:23 PM
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Jumpingrock,
Thank you for your constructive criticism. You are absolutley correct. I should have known better than to ask a question on this site. You guys are tough.
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jumpingrock
Mar 12, 2007, 9:47 PM
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No reason not to ask a question. Just ASK the question and don't bitch when somebody asks for clarification or answers to the best of his abilities based on a poorly worded question.
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peterk
Mar 12, 2007, 9:53 PM
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Okay, so I will try again (flame away). Wall is vertical. Footholds are relatively small and there are three holds in a row that require crimp holds. The one I pop off of is a full stretch up and a bit to the right (off balance), and just enough to get the fingertips onto it. I keep feeling that I am going backwards as I reach for the hold. I almost was able to stay on. Body position, hips, feet, something is in a poor position.
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jumpingrock
Mar 12, 2007, 9:58 PM
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Better. And in response:
I find that if I am reaching for a small crimper I will have much more trouble holding it than if I get my feet up and am able to grab it without reaching. Are you possibly able to move your feet into a higher position in order to allow for less stretching to reach the hold?
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jakedatc
Mar 12, 2007, 9:59 PM
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Peter.. your question was weather or not you had bad footwork or weak fingers. Overlord said a combination of both.. which is true essentially at every level.
In reply to: Would lifting the heel above horizontal help push me into the wall?
Watch climbers that are better than you do the route that you are trying to figure out. ask them to repeat sections if need be to see how they do it again..
warm up good and then get on whatever route you are having trouble with.. don't wait until the end of the night when you're burnt out.. get on it fresh
i think it's very hard to "coach' online without actually seeing what you're having trouble with and how you climb.
edit: sounds like you're barn dooring off.. got a camera phone? take a pic of the route and post it and we could see what kinda foot work might help. i know you're in MA.. what gym do you go to?
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Mar 12, 2007, 10:02 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 12, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Hey PeterK, I have a question for you:
I've been learning math. I've got this hard equation. It involves this variable called "X". I just can't seem to solve for X. Maybe you could help. Do you have any suggestions? Am I just not smart enough, or is there maybe an axiom I'm missing?
Oh, you need more detail? I haven't explained enough? Okay, there's also two other variables, N and A. And the numbers 5 and 10, and a triangle.
So what's the answer?
GO
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peterk
Mar 12, 2007, 10:08 PM
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I have been going to Metro in Newburyport. Nice place.
I guess by "lifting my heel" I mean standing more on my toes. I was wondering if I were to focus on getting the heels of the foot above the level of my toes then maybe it would help get the force of my body weight more forward and towards the wall. I may be way off here, it is just a thought.
(This post was edited by peterk on Mar 12, 2007, 10:18 PM)
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devils_advocate
Mar 12, 2007, 10:14 PM
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Is it an isosceles, equilateral, or a right triangle?
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jakedatc
Mar 12, 2007, 10:27 PM
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maybe? It depends.. it may give you more height/reach but it may also make your foot pop off small foot holds..
keep trying.. work it out.. ask people up there to help you out.
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hummm
Mar 12, 2007, 10:31 PM
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It is really hard to help you about a specific move online. Have you try to place your other foot on the same foot hold not to barn door out? Where is your elbow as you are fulling on the little crimp? You need to pay attention to all those little details to imrpove your chance to getting to the next hold. Best bet is just simply watch others climb the same route, or just ask someone to show you. Most of the gym staffs should be friendly and helpful.
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silascl
Mar 13, 2007, 12:05 AM
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peterk wrote: I have been going to Metro in Newburyport. Nice place. I guess by "lifting my heel" I mean standing more on my toes. I was wondering if I were to focus on getting the heels of the foot above the level of my toes then maybe it would help get the force of my body weight more forward and towards the wall. I may be way off here, it is just a thought.
Sounds like you're putting your foot so that your toes are pointing straight at the wall. If it's a smaller foothold, try edging. This means you should have the ball of your big toe on the hold. It may help you to get more power out of your legs (especially on a vertical wall)
If it's a move to the right, you may want to 'backstep' with your right foot. This means putting the outside of your foot, somewhere around the ball of your pinky toe, on the hold, and putting that right hip into the wall.
Watch some other climbers on steep routes, especially bouldering. You will see them use these techniques all the time.
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dynoingfool
Mar 13, 2007, 12:10 AM
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sometimes, as said: even the little details make the difference. when your reaching, try pointing your knees/feet in the other direction, try moving your fingers further apart/closer together, try changeing how your pulling, from out to down more. try ANYTHING!!!
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petje
Mar 13, 2007, 7:29 AM
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The way you describe your last problem, it sounds that it's body-/core tension stomach and lower back keep youu on the wall when reaching for afar away hold. When you are really stretching and there is no higher foothold for your opposite foot, keeping your body long enough on the wall to grab a far away hold is body tension and of course a good feeling in your feet.
Can you do the moves isolated, but not when you try the whole route? Then bodytension. Do reps on stomach and back for more core strength, boulder in steep problems to develop body tension. If making the moves isolated is still a problem, technique. Get outside and climb slabs!
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overlord
Mar 13, 2007, 8:53 AM
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peterk wrote: Okay, so I will try again (flame away). Wall is vertical. Footholds are relatively small and there are three holds in a row that require crimp holds. The one I pop off of is a full stretch up and a bit to the right (off balance), and just enough to get the fingertips onto it. I keep feeling that I am going backwards as I reach for the hold. I almost was able to stay on. Body position, hips, feet, something is in a poor position.
see, that is better
you probably ARE falling backwards as you reach for the hold.
i try to do such moves with a bit of momentum. try to get as close to the hold as possible and still be stable, then do a little dyno onto it. if your body starts to rotate, plan ahead about what to do with your feet (use your feet, not your arms, to fight the rotation). you should try to generate the momentum in such a way, that when you reach the hold, your body is basicly still (its called a deadpoint). and, like petje said, good body tension does help a lot. as does an abundance of finger power.
as for body position, try to keep your heeps as close to the wall as you can, put as much weight as possible onto your feet (dooh), and i do NOT reccomend turning your hips/backstepping. that kind of movement is usually less than optimal on vertical terrain (offcourse that rule is meant to be broken).
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peterk
Mar 13, 2007, 9:16 PM
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Been away from the computer since yesterday. Thanks for the good tips. I will printing this thread and taking with me the next time I go there.
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cracklover
Mar 13, 2007, 9:56 PM
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Hey PeterK, I climb at MetroRock. I'll be there on Thursday. Just ask me. So much easier than trying to figure out the impossible over the internet.
GO
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