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Norwegian
Mar 12, 2007, 1:56 PM
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i was a free spirited wanderer living in my toyota without a steady job. living for myself and reaping lots of smiles and fulfillment. seeing new places and meeting new people and climbing new cracks. the vitality metre was pegged.
then i had childeren.
now i produce an income. sleep in the same spot every night. climb infrequently. the worst... i got a set of silverware for christmas.
i love my two daughters immensely. though i miss the loose lifestyle where showers rarely found me, i beam when my 1-year old waddles across the room to hug my leg when i walk through the door.
i feel weighted down with debt and minutia (a shitload of silverware, etc) and responsiblity. but im a dad now, and so far i've yet to be creative enough to show my daughters a life against the capitalistic grain. we rarely travel. i show them the river canyons when i can.
but day in and out they see me go to work and come home worked. i realize that i'm leading by example and they will probably copy me, and be good americans for it.
the point of this post is that i respect all of the dads that have changed their life path from one of wandering and learning and change, and sleeping in the dust beneath the stars, to clean sheets and showers and habit trails.
on the other hand, well, i wont go into what i think of the reciprocal situation.
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billl7
Mar 12, 2007, 2:24 PM
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Hang in there. IMHO, you are at the personal crux of parenting. It'll ease up in a couple of years. Just try to avoid what my wife and I did: approximately 11 years of being more into diapers than not!
Well said.
Bill L
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reg
Mar 12, 2007, 3:18 PM
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Norwegian wrote: i love my two daughters immensely.
how about the wife?
i don't know what the problem is other then you. what are you waiting for? take them out - get outside with them. hike, camp, climb, bike. do it all. teach them about the other world out there - that is unless the wife doesn't want any part of it. can't believe that to be the case. don't think you would be together if that were true. ok - everybody goes out tonight for a walk in the woods - got it?
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drrock
Mar 12, 2007, 3:21 PM
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Things change. There are days I would love to go back, even if only briefly, but overall and overwhelmingly it is a good change. Thanks Bill L, that is good to know. I guess I am also right in the crux.
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fn1657
Mar 12, 2007, 3:46 PM
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I know how you feel, we have a 4 and 2 year old. But my daughter took her 1st backpacking trip at a year old. She has been treking through Denali Nat'l Park, Shanandoah & the Chugach Range. Now that we have our son we are regulated to car camping (way to much to carry on our backs). I am lucky enough to have in-laws that will watch them while we climb. The point is you have to make time, I know its hard, but my wife and I want our children to enjoy everything outdoors that we have experienced. You just have to find the balance in life.
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envirogeek
Mar 12, 2007, 3:52 PM
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I have to say that I am very lucky in the sense that I am an avid backpacker, climber, diver, cyclist, etc and my wife totally supports what I do. We now have a 9 month old daughter and I plan on teaching her about the outdoors. I also helps that I am an instructor in environmental management. My wife wants me to show our daughter about those things and she is willing to participate also, so we can have family time while I still get to have fun with the things I enjoy.
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dingus
Mar 12, 2007, 3:58 PM
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Funny how we wake up one day and realize we're human too? That we're not immune to the same forces of evil (haha) that nabbed Ozzie and Harriet, Ward and June Clever. One day we find ourselves donning the Big Shoes and heading out to score the daily bread. Our loved ones count on us.
Somehow when we were younger? We thought WE were different, that somehow we would be above, outside, beyond or just not up to... that sort of living.
Hah! I type this from the suburbs of course.
The day my eldest was born I climbed Lucky Streaks in the Meadows, literally. She's 15 now and I kissed her g'bye on her way to high school an hour ago.
I wouldn't have it any other way. Well... scoring the lotto would be nice.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Mar 12, 2007, 4:01 PM)
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skurdeycat
Mar 12, 2007, 4:03 PM
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Things will change, but only as much as you let them. My oldest isn't four yet and he's "done" several state high points. Hauling your kid 4000ft up a mountain in a backpack is strenuous, but having them see a bear in the wild before they've even see one in a zoo is priceless.
A few years ago, on the summit of some Adirondack peak, a fellow hiker came over to thank us for bringing our child. It was an odd gesture, but it has stuck with me and I try to live up to his gratitude.
Skurdey
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oldrnotboldr
Mar 12, 2007, 4:13 PM
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"reg wrote: what are you waiting for? take them out - get outside with them. hike, camp, climb, bike. do it all. teach them about the other world out there - that is unless the wife doesn't want any part of it. can't believe that to be the case. don't think you would be together if that were true. ok - everybody goes out tonight for a walk in the woods - got it?
Ditto on that. I travel as much, maybe more, than ever. Two kids keeps me going in many directions. They both climb, hike, ski, canoe, kayak, bike, camp, etc. Old areas to me, become new again while looking through kids eyes. The only difference is that now I'm less alone than before. It was funny the otehr day my 9 yr. old daughetr was watching some t.v. show and pointing out and laughing at all of the mistakes they were making! She said they woould die if they were climbing for real. LOL. The day my kids did their forst real rock top out, I was beaming brighetr than the sun. Yet, I still take off once in a while for a solo trek. They all understand since that's the way life is.
Take them all out, hike, ski, swim, canoe, and climb on.
(This post was edited by oldrnotboldr on Mar 12, 2007, 4:15 PM)
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dynosore
Mar 12, 2007, 4:23 PM
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"Happiness is not having what you love, but loving what you have"
Hey, at least you got to choose to have kids, I suddenly had 2 teenage girls to raise when my retarded relatives lost custody of their children.
We weren't thrilled with the idea but of course we did it. It took a little adjustment, but I realized that showing them a loving home and helping them repair their damaged lives is far more important than any rock I could ever climb. Think about it. Kids are the most important thing you'll ever spend your time on.
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highangle
Mar 12, 2007, 4:55 PM
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I think many of us can definately sympathize. 1st born went everywhere on my back, fly fishing, hiking, etc. Once the second came, well, it all ground to a halt. 1st because it was too much shit to pack and 2nd because if my wife couldn't go, well, I probably shouldn't
Now, at 12 and 10, my son (12) loves being outdoors, just enjoying it, and is planning an extended pack trip w/just me, and is hell on skis.
My daughter (10) lives for climbing, bouldering, backcountry skiing, kyaking (which I haven't picked up yet myself!)
Needless to say, keep your own passion going - even if you can't be out doing it. Eventually you'll get past the crux, and pretty soon you won't be able to imagine doing all these things w/o your kids/wife. While I get out w/ others now and then, and occasionally solo, the most rewarding time spent has been with them. (even if it means only leading below 5.10 to give them something to climb!)
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codhands
Mar 12, 2007, 5:17 PM
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I have three boys and a lovely woman and a 9 to 5 job. It takes work but things get better. I still rarely shower though, so you still got that going for you.
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lena_chita
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Mar 12, 2007, 5:20 PM
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The spouse is missing somehow from the picture... but I'm glad you love your daughters.
And yes, I understand, how you feel. I too would like to live again though the care-free days before the parental responsibility kicked in. oh, those days! My husband and I didn't know how luxurious it was to have no one dependent on us. To be able to get up and go on a moment's notice -- b/c we wanted to, and there was nothing to stop us from going. Oh, Well, that river is not to be stepped into again.
It does get easier to take your kids places as they get older. At 8yo and 4yo our son and daugher are experienced campers and good hikers. Yes, it requires more planning, more patience, etc. etc. But good things in our life didn't end b/c we had kids. Yes, we had to let go of some enjoyable things -- but we also found new things we didn't even know about before.
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hosh
Mar 12, 2007, 5:38 PM
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Also have left a life of less responsibility, but my job keeps me away from home in the evenings mostly and I have lost of time for the family during the day. I love my son more than anything and would give up climbing all together if he needed me to. He's worth it. The wife ain't bad either... I wouldn't give up climbing for her though, I'd just take her with... ;)
hosh.
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c4c
Mar 12, 2007, 5:45 PM
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We enjoy dirtbagging as a family for vacations. Its the only way to go! Kids are getting old enough to express an interest in climbing so hopefully their old man can keep up with them long enough to teach them the finer points.
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redpoint73
Mar 12, 2007, 5:54 PM
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While I can't speak personally, I have a few friends with kids and more than full-time jobs. They can often fit some climbing and other activities in. But as others have mentioned, its much more feasible once your kids reach a more self-sufficient age. I often wonder how they can fit it all in. One friend takes his 8-yr. son bouldering and hiking. My other friend takes his daughters skiing, to the climbing gym, bouldering, and on all kinds of trips. And both friends fairly frequently can get someone to watch the kids while they go out and have some "adult" rock and ice climbing fun.
A shift in priorities does not necessarily mean an end to climbing. It happens to pretty much everyone eventually, for one reason or another. And the end of one lifestyle simply means the beginning of another. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Who know, one of your girls may be the next Lynn Hill, and may be dragging YOU out climbing. Just tough it out and don't give up on climbing. The worst stories I have ever heard are the ones that start out "I used to climb before . . .".
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jdouble
Mar 12, 2007, 5:58 PM
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This thread gives me hope! Thanks all.
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alxg
Mar 13, 2007, 12:24 AM
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What's really interesting is that you spend this time thinking, dreaming of the day that you will be able to do and go and be without kids again. Then the time comes and you miss the hell outta those times when the one year old ran to hug your leg when you got home from work or the 6 year old would cuddle with you during a movie. My girls are now 25 and 27 years old and I sooooooooo miss those days.
Enjoy the moment, it doesn't last forever.
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tradrenn
Mar 13, 2007, 1:35 AM
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jdouble wrote: This thread gives me hope! Thanks all.
Me too.
I'm not married and I have no children but God help me I would love to have some.
One thing I know is that I don't want to wake up alone when I'm 60 years old and have no family but be able to climb 5.12 on gear.
Hang in the brothers and sisters, you are giving hope to more people then you might think.
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granite_grrl
Mar 13, 2007, 12:49 PM
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tradrenn wrote: One thing I know is that I don't want to wake up alone when I'm 60 years old and have no family but be able to climb 5.12 on gear.
That's actually really sweet.
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redpoint73
Mar 13, 2007, 1:02 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: tradrenn wrote: One thing I know is that I don't want to wake up alone when I'm 60 years old and have no family but be able to climb 5.12 on gear. That's actually really sweet.
Why not 60, a family, and climb 5.12 on gear?
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the_leech
Mar 13, 2007, 2:32 PM
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tradrenn wrote: I'm not married and I have no children but God help me I would love to have some.
Don’t buy into the hype.
Kids are not worth it. They’re a pain in the ass, they suck your money and time, and they have the potential to become violent felons who will consume and destroy your life no matter how well you parent them.
Of course, parents will chime in about how their kids have changed their lives for the better. They’ll point out that those without kids simply can’t understand the joy of having their baby look into their eyes as they change its shitty diaper. They’ll describe how empty their lives would be without their children.
That’s all a creative rationalization after knocking up some chick (or getting knocked up) and not being able to undo the mess you got yourself into.
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bizarrodrinker
Mar 13, 2007, 2:36 PM
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the_leech wrote: tradrenn wrote: I'm not married and I have no children but God help me I would love to have some. Don’t buy into the hype. Kids are not worth it. They’re a pain in the ass, they suck your money and time, and they have the potential to become violent felons who will consume and destroy your life no matter how well you parent them. Of course, parents will chime in about how their kids have changed their lives for the better. They’ll point out that those without kids simply can’t understand the joy of having their baby look into their eyes as they change its shitty diaper. They’ll describe how empty their lives would be without their children. That’s all a creative rationalization after knocking up some chick (or getting knocked up) and not being able to undo the mess you got yourself into.
Do you have any kids?
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sky7high
Mar 13, 2007, 3:01 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: tradrenn wrote: One thing I know is that I don't want to wake up alone when I'm 60 years old and have no family but be able to climb 5.12 on gear. That's actually really sweet.
It's part of my definition of a great life, although I probably wont reach 60, not in 5.12 gear-leading condition at least, so make that 40
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camhead
Mar 13, 2007, 3:07 PM
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this is the anchor that stopped me from climbing.
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