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avenue712
Mar 19, 2007, 12:17 PM
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When is a good time to learn to lead? I'm a new climber (top roper/boulderer just a few months in) who is really looking to get on the sharp end, but I'm not sure how much skill/experience I should acquire before I start exploring sport climbing. Any advice is welcome and appreciated!
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bobruef
Mar 19, 2007, 12:21 PM
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Now
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rhythm164
Mar 19, 2007, 12:35 PM
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Pretty much whenever you feel comfortable. The only thing you need to know about sport climbing is don't backclip the draw. Off you go then.
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dbrayack
Mar 19, 2007, 1:39 PM
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Go for it...you'll be fine.
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redpoint73
Mar 19, 2007, 2:22 PM
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Depends on the difficulty of the sport climbs in your area. I recommend being able to comfortably top rope the difficulty level that you intend on leading. When you are learning, it takes a bit of your attention to learn the process of clipping, rope management, etc. And leading may physically drain you more then top rope as well, since you have to find a clipping stance then hold on long enough to clip. You want the climb to be easy enough that you can learn the process without getting sketched out. If you jump on a route that is close to your physical and mental limit, then try to combine that w. learning to lead, it can get messy. At some areas, like Rumney, there are sport routes as easy as 5.3. But at many of the sport crags in the US, there are only have a handful of routes below 5.10. At many areas, I would recommend being able to top rope 5.10 in order to make leading outdoors worthwhile.
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avenue712
Mar 19, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement!
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boku
Mar 20, 2007, 1:11 AM
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To add to the short list of things-not-to-do when leading: * Don't back-clip * Don't Z-clip * Don't get the rope behind your leg when you're above the last pro I generally suggest that gym climbers practice leading when they're comfortable at 5.9+... But of course everybody's mileage varies.
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truello
Mar 20, 2007, 1:56 AM
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Just read up on it and do it. A friend and I were waiting for a lesson or two but as we got anxious we just got out and did it. We both read up on all of the techniques and just got back from RRG and did fine. Even climbed with some guys who had been climbing for 30 years and said everything we did looked great.
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CONDRO
Mar 21, 2007, 4:47 PM
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I was glad to see that someone else had asked this question. I just started climbing as well and some friends and I are in the same boat. We want to take it from the gym to the great out doors. what will we need. and are there any rules to follow? I think I understand what you mean below, but could you explain it? I'll check the dictionary too!
boku wrote: To add to the short list of things-not-to-do when leading: * Don't back-clip * Don't Z-clip * Don't get the rope behind your leg when you're above the last pro |
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djoseph
Mar 21, 2007, 4:57 PM
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CONDRO wrote: what will we need. and are there any rules to follow? I think I understand what you mean below, but could you explain it? I'll check the dictionary too! Highly, highly recommend going out with someone who can show you what a backclip is, and spot them as you're going. (Z-clip will be more obvious.) Also, highly recommend that you learn from someone experienced how to clean anchors, etc. Good luck, and enjoy. Dan
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redpoint73
Mar 21, 2007, 5:08 PM
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CONDRO wrote: what will we need. and are there any rules to follow? I think I understand what you mean below, but could you explain it? I'll check the dictionary too! boku wrote: To add to the short list of things-not-to-do when leading: * Don't back-clip * Don't Z-clip * Don't get the rope behind your leg when you're above the last pro You just quoted some of the rules after you asked the question. Pick up a book like the Falcon series "How to Rock Climb" or "Sport Climbing", both by John Long. They have much more useful information than what can be conveniently explained here. truello wrote: Just read up on it and do it. A friend and I were waiting for a lesson or two but as we got anxious we just got out and did it. We both read up on all of the techniques and just got back from RRG and did fine. Even climbed with some guys who had been climbing for 30 years and said everything we did looked great. Thats fine for some people. But many people can't just learn from a book and figure it out on their own. It takes some critical thinking skills, or some people can get themselves in real trouble. I've seen plenty of beginners try to teach themselves to sport climb, then Z-clip or back-clip, and when someone tries to inform them, they reply "Whats a Z-clip???".
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ihategrigris
Mar 21, 2007, 5:18 PM
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avenue712 wrote: When is a good time to learn to lead? I'm a new climber (top roper/boulderer just a few months in) who is really looking to get on the sharp end, but I'm not sure how much skill/experience I should acquire before I start exploring sport climbing. Any advice is welcome and appreciated! One imporant point... learning to lead is the easy part... learning how to belay a lead climber is that challenge.
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boku
Mar 21, 2007, 5:20 PM
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CONDRO wrote: ...I think I understand what you mean below, but could you explain it? I'll check the dictionary too! There are plenty of folks here far more qualified than me on this topic, and it really belongs in the Beginner forum. But, sure, I'll take a stab at it. * Don't back-clip Back clipping is where you clip a draw or sling so that in a fall the rope is more likely unclip itself by snapping back through the gate of the carabiner. It's most important when using short, stiff sport quickdraws, but still a thing to be aware of when using long floppy slings commonly used in trad climbing. It's difficult to describe without illustrations, so look it up. * Don't Z-clip Z-clipping is where you reach down and pull up some rope to clip into a quickdraw, but you accidently grab the rope below the last quickdraw and clip that. After you've Z-clipped, the rope goes from your harness, down to the lower quickdraw, up to the upper quickdraw, and then to your belayer. Z-clipping is most common in closely bolted routes like in the gym, but I have seen it happen in the outdoors. If you try to climb after Z-clipping, you find that the rope drag is very strong. If you fall, you'll go at least twice the distance to the lower quickdraw. The quick fix is usually to unbclip the rope from the bottom clip, then to quickly glance about to see if anybody saw you screw up. * Don't get the rope behind your leg when you're above the last pro If you're above your last pro and the rope goes from your harness, between your legs and behind one of them, and then down to a clip, it will flip you upside down if you fall. Then you'll be in some awkward position when the rope comes tight, and you'll likely smack your head hard on the rock. Been there, done that, broke the helmet.
(This post was edited by boku on Mar 21, 2007, 5:22 PM)
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CONDRO
Mar 21, 2007, 5:38 PM
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Thanks for all the insight. I am definitely going to get a few books and see if I can find some more knowledge at the local gym.
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rockguide
Mar 23, 2007, 4:15 AM
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CONDRO wrote: Thanks for all the insight. I am definitely going to get a few books and see if I can find some more knowledge at the local gym. All the advice so far is about skills you would use in the gym. For outdoor climbing learn how to remove the gear at the top of the route and lower or rappel down. That is the most significant business about learning to lead outdoors.
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bent_gate
Mar 23, 2007, 5:48 AM
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rockguide wrote: CONDRO wrote: Thanks for all the insight. I am definitely going to get a few books and see if I can find some more knowledge at the local gym. All the advice so far is about skills you would use in the gym. For outdoor climbing learn how to remove the gear at the top of the route and lower or rappel down. That is the most significant business about learning to lead outdoors. Your right. Most gyms don't teach how to clean the anchors or etiquette for climbing outside in their Sport Climbing Classes. I was lucky that mine did years ago, but when I ask people now, it seems like they are never taught it. And of course that is the next place all the students immediately head off to. So to any gym instructors out there, teach this at the end of your Sport Classes, even if your gym doesn't officially recognize it. (no doubt for insurance reasons).
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musicman1586
Mar 23, 2007, 6:28 AM
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Just get outside, ask some experienced climbers to teach you, and they very likely will. Most climbing communities are really open to new people, so just get out, meet some people and do it.
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rockguide
Mar 23, 2007, 12:34 PM
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musicman1586 wrote: Just get outside, ask some experienced climbers to teach you, and they very likely will. Most climbing communities are really open to new people, so just get out, meet some people and do it. Just practice it on the ground once before you do it for real. I have seen too many nOObs trying to figure it out 25m off the ground with the "experienced" climbers shouting out incomplete and contradictory steps from the ground.
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bizarrodrinker
Mar 23, 2007, 12:40 PM
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How bout nowish?
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mastheadmike
Mar 25, 2007, 5:37 AM
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I started leading when I was the one that knew more than my partner....and we couldn't really hike to the bolts we were gonna use for a top rope. Lead outta need But as someone else pointed out in an earlier reply, when you're comfortable and ready!
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fearlessclimber
Mar 26, 2007, 2:36 AM
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now, you wont get experience if you dont start.
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AlpineLogistics
Mar 29, 2007, 5:33 AM
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Start as soon as you can...but don't expect to do the same grades you do on a top rop...you'll just scare yourself. Nothing wrong with starting out easy whilst you learn and gain confidence. Best thing to do is go with someone more experienced, you can learn a great deal very quickly....join a club or something.
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avenue712
Apr 3, 2007, 10:12 AM
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I just wanted to say thanks for all the advice and encouragement--I got out and clipped some bolts for the first time two weekends ago. I took a good fall, made some good mistakes (and learned how to recognize when I make a mistake!), and had a great time! I'm hooked! Much appreciation!
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kenyakiki
May 4, 2007, 5:26 PM
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I am new to this forum but you guys are quite encouraging!!! Thanks It is nice to have people actually want to help and keep you safe rather than bashing you for not understanding (some other forums I have been on!) Thanks again
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zionvier
Jun 4, 2007, 3:41 PM
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I slightly disagree with the "when you're comfortable". I don't think there will be a time when you're completely comfortable, the first time should have you pretty nervous no matter how much you've been taught and read. Obviously, There is a point of comfortability that people need to get with and I'd never push someone up a rock that started to climb and decided they weren't ready. I think most people have said it already though, do some research like you are now, read some books, but definitely make sure your first couple times out includes someone that knows what they are doing. You'd rather have the belayer have experience with belaying a leader so he/she can point out anything you might be doing wrong and at the same time explain to your friend the difference in belaying and "why the quickdraw was clipped wrong originally on that last bolt" Try just going out to the local crag while others are there and ask the group next to you if they'd mind explaining things as they lead their next route. They'll probably offer to belay or watch you as you try your first lead.
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