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tallnik
Mar 30, 2007, 9:20 PM
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Hey guys,
I've been wanting a set of the Yates adjustable daisies for quite some time, and want to hear your thoughts on these guys with the built in screamers. I climb a bit of A3+ (have never done anything harder) and plan on doing a fair bit of aid climbing. They don't sell the reg. adjustable daisies any where near where I live, and I've found a set of the ones with the built in screamers.
Thoughts?
Nik
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stymingersfink
Mar 31, 2007, 2:33 AM
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not a fan of the adjustable daisies, preferring the kong adjustable fifi instead. for 6.95 and the occasional cord replacement, i find it's a much better bang for my buck.
In my experience, haveing too many "adjuatable" appendages just adds to the CF. That's just me though, YMMV.
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tallnik
Mar 31, 2007, 2:56 PM
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Since I'm an aid greenhorn compared guys like you ^, let me just ask:
When you're climbing steep stuff, I really liked the way one could easily yard oneself up with the adjustable daisy. I mean that as in, you've clipped the piece above, and are oozing your way upwards, pulling in slack in the daisy.
Is it possible to do this with the fifi?
Cheers,
Nik
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pinnbasher
Mar 31, 2007, 4:07 PM
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Why a screamer on a daisy? Do you use them on both daisys? I use screamers all the time else ware so I understand the principle. Might sound like a odd question but I cant really get my mind wrapped around this one
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tomtom
Mar 31, 2007, 6:17 PM
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Daisy falls are the worst.
Say your leading up. You place a piece high, clip in one daisy and step up. As you're reaching down to unclip your lower daisy, PING. You fall on your lower daisy connnected to the lower piece. That's a high fall factor on a static daisy and generates a substantial peak force. A screamer on the daisy would help reduce that peak force.
That's the theory, anyway.
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mascent
Mar 31, 2007, 6:32 PM
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We use the Yates adjustable daisies for work positioning and they are the best product so far. I have a bunch of slightly used ones that were taken out of service because of the lack of a breaking strength label. I have been selling them for $8 to $10 based on the condition. None are even close to being in bad shape or I wouldn't sell them. I can send you as many as you want and you can send a check or cash back. My e-mail is mascent@gmail.com
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stymingersfink
Mar 31, 2007, 10:10 PM
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the kong adjustable fifi works just as you question... the thing is, when yarding on an "adjustable" piece, it generates a not insubstantial amount of friction on the material you are pulling through the piece (the kong fifi, in this case). On a long wall, a prudent user of this piece of gear will carry a length of accessory cord to replace the cord you have begun the climb with, just in case it becomes so worn that it causes you to wonder. I have not climbed more than 16 pitches with the same cord, though some life remained it was not lively enough to climb another route entirely.
Doing something similar with a tool which requires a piece of webbing might also require that you haul the sewing machine up the wall with you, or at least a good stitching kit. The "adjustable" daisies that I have seen require one to pull a piece of flat webbing through a buckle which has some kind of diamond knurl machined into the face of it (think load compression straps of the type one might use to tie down the kayak). The webbing being pulled over a 180degree change of direction, in conjunction with the cam-buckle, generates a significant amount of wear which will have to be dealt with at some point.
I prefer to use a piece which is easily field maintainable, especially since it is less than a third the cost. A leader would only need only one adjustable fifi, and one standard fifi, as once the piece you are standing on is at waist height a switch can be made, preparing the adjustable fifi to be placed on the next piece you will be yarding on.
I have found the adjustable fifi handy for initial testing of a piece, as well as an invaluable tool to weight hooks with, especially when the hook placement is a good ways to one side. It will allow oneself to step lower to bounce a tad on a questionable piece when the stirrups are too high to step into, or essentially lower themselves onto a hook as gently as can be.
There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, resulting in a broken leg IIRC. (Un)fortunately this person no longer posts to this board, but you might ask PTPP what he thinks of them over on that supertaco board. However, be prepared to filter through someone's "better way" and find a way that works for you.
edited to correct the response credit to tallnik
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Mar 31, 2007, 10:12 PM)
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flamer
Apr 1, 2007, 6:36 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke,
...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well.
I used to use the ADC's...now I'm back to good old pocket daisy's and a fifi(not adjustable). I move plenty fast with them.
josh
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namascar
Apr 4, 2007, 3:41 AM
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The Yates adjustable daisies are very good, overall.
I don't use the ones with the screamers; I just use the regular ones, because they are less bulky. I am willing to take a longer ride if they pop.
The good things are:
1) You can release them while in tension.
2) Climbing with them is very fast.
3) Reasonable strong. Had at least 4 falls on them (different ones every time) and all held. Although they are not rated for that and you should not count on it.
4) Attractive euro-disco colors.
5) Easy to re-extend them with only one hand.
6) Can be adjusted to the exact require distance. As opposed to the regular daisy with the fifi.
The Bad things:
1) The tape twists and they become hard to use after 2 walls.
2) Rather often, they slip. You require 2 spares for a wall.
It is kind of a drag that they slip so much, but still the best thing out there in my opinion. The adjustable fifi system is cool also, but I like to have a carabiner at the end. Not a hook.
My friend uses the daisy with the screamer and once he fall on the daisy, it deployed, and he didn't fall further. So more anecdotal data for those who use it. I heard of people breaking adjustable daisies also.
Have a good time out there,
javier
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tomtom
Apr 4, 2007, 3:41 AM
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flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well.
I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke.
And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE!
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nefarius
Apr 4, 2007, 4:11 AM
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adjustable daisies do and *will* break if not used properly and you take a daisy fall. Proper technique will take care of this. I have seen a Metolius adj. break and know of a Yates that broke, as well as saw the broken parts.
So, as to the upthread description "As you're reaching down to unclip your lower daisy, PING." Make SURE you clip the rope, after testing your upper piece and before fully commiting to it. I do this as I step onto it. This will greatly reduce the odds of you taking a daisy fall.
You do NOT want to take a daisy fall, regardless of whether or not it is adjustable. But, for the record, adjustables are only rated for about 500lbs.
As far as the screamer versions... I know of a couple of people who have used them. I think it just adds unnecessary length to your system and if you blow it, it's gone. More than anything the length added to the system is bad, IMO. Just more work for you.
(This post was edited by nefarius on Apr 4, 2007, 4:14 AM)
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flamer
Apr 4, 2007, 12:51 PM
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tomtom wrote: flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well. I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke. And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE!
So funny...except that in both situations a standard NYLON daisy most likely would not have broken.
josh
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stymingersfink
Apr 5, 2007, 4:06 AM
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nefarius wrote: Make SURE you clip the rope, after testing your upper piece and before fully commiting to it.
so, to review:
moving from the anchor, place the first piece. attach aider+daisy combo to piece, attach adjustable fife and remove slack from fifi system. weight piece through fifi system. holds? good. step one foot into ladder, step test, being ready to take all weight on the known-good-piece's ladder (the anchor). holds? good. step onto ladders w/ both feet, bounce it. holds? good. move quickly up to 3rd step, remove ladders+daisy from anchor, ready next peice from rack, step up if necessary and hook short fifi to piece. place piece, clip set of ladders you have already removed from the anchor, hook adjustable fifi to this new piece, test to body weight. holds? good. good piece at waist? good. clip lead lined to this good piece. step one foot to questionable piece's ladder and lightly bounce it. holds? unclip ladder+daisy from good piece you've been standing on and commit to serious bounce testing of most recently placed piece. holds? good. quickly step up to 3rd step. repeat as necessary.
one has never really subjected oneself to a daisy fall, so why would one need a screamer in the daisy system? it's just another thing to add to the weight/CF inherent in aid climbing. the true purpose of the daisy is to ensure that one does not lose their ladders or piece of gear if a placement failed during testing procedures. that is all.
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redpoint73
Apr 5, 2007, 5:27 AM
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flamer wrote: tomtom wrote: flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well. I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke. And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE! So funny...except that in both situations a standard NYLON daisy most likely would not have broken. josh
And what makes you think that?
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nefarius
Apr 5, 2007, 6:13 AM
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Yep, definitely what I meant. Looking back, I should have clarified that better.
I'd also say make sure when you are bouncing/testing your upper piece, make sure you have hold of the biner/grab loop attached to the lower piece, in case the new piece blows. This will help prevent you from falling out of the aider and keep your balance. Don't look at the piece you're testing either.
Otherwise, your desription is right on, stym.
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flamer
Apr 5, 2007, 8:03 AM
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redpoint73 wrote: flamer wrote: tomtom wrote: flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well. I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke. And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE! So funny...except that in both situations a standard NYLON daisy most likely would not have broken. josh And what makes you think that?
Maybe the fact that in tests the standard nylon daisy's did not completly fail? When drop tested the nylon pocketed daisy's had all of the pockets fail, but the end's do not.
The same daisy mdae out of spectra failed EVERYTIME.
So did the Adjustables.
Look it up..the info is out there.
The main key to remember with ANY daisy is that they are for upward movement, comfort, and organization.
They should NEVER be counted on as a true life safety device. ALWAYS have the rope as your primary attachment to the system.
josh
(This post was edited by flamer on Apr 5, 2007, 8:08 AM)
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majid_sabet
Apr 5, 2007, 8:16 AM
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tomtom wrote: flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well. I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke. And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE!
worn belay loop for sure but are you 100% certin about the cause ?
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Apr 5, 2007, 8:23 AM)
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tomtom
Apr 6, 2007, 3:13 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: tomtom wrote: flamer wrote: stymingersfink wrote: There has been at least one incident involving a worn "adjustable" daisy that broke, ...I have a good friend who broke a yates adjustable as well. I heard about this guy who died because his worn belay loop broke. And this other guy decked because HIS ROPE BROKE! worn belay loop for sure but are you 100% certin about the cause ?
That's what I heard!
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stymingersfink
Apr 7, 2007, 2:37 AM
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nefarius wrote: I'd also say make sure when you are bouncing/testing your upper piece, make sure you have hold of the biner/grab loop attached to the lower piece, in case the new piece blows. This will help prevent you from falling out of the aider and keep your balance. Don't look at the piece you're testing either. flamer wrote: The main key to remember with ANY daisy is that they are for upward movement, comfort, and organization. They should NEVER be counted on as a true life safety device. ALWAYS have the rope as your primary attachment to the system.
josh
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tallnik
Apr 8, 2007, 8:44 PM
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Thanks for all the posts boys and girls...
I'll play around with a fifi system, and eventually try the nylon daisies as well. Right now, I'm so slow on the wall, anything that allows me to move faster is alright by me.
Cheers,
Nik
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